The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: anjimehra on 07.01. 2014 06:17

Title: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 07.01. 2014 06:17
Hi

Happy Hew Year to all.

Anybody know the size & no of the engine oil seal ? The bike came as a basket case missing a few parts. Thanks
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 07.01. 2014 08:54
G'day Anji. The '51 AA7 didn't have one. they were used from '53 I think in the BA7's.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 09.01. 2014 05:35
G'day Anji. The '51 AA7 didn't have one. they were used from '53 I think in the BA7's.
Cheers

Thanks muskrat. That makes life alittle easier. Any idea where I can free download a w/s manual for 1951 A 7 ?
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 09.01. 2014 09:36
G'day Anji.
Wiki has a good list of pages to view, you have to join Wiki to download. I just copy and paste into Word.
http://www.bsawiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Chapter_list
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 09.01. 2014 15:28
G'day Anji.
Wiki has a good list of pages to view, you have to join Wiki to download. I just copy and paste into Word.
http://www.bsawiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Chapter_list
Cheers

Thanks muskrat. Much obliged
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 25.01. 2014 15:07
Hi

Does anyone have an exploded view of the 1951 AA7 engine ? Logic says that there must be a bush with collar on the timing side, but this one docent . It has plain bush but thecae itself has a step cast in where the bush sits ( hope that makes sense??).
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: bsa-bill on 25.01. 2014 15:59
Hi Anji

not quite sure if I've got this right but if your talking about the timingside bush it does have a collar but the collar goes to the inside of the crankcase so nothing to be seen from the outside except the plain end of the bush.
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 25.01. 2014 20:12
G'day Anji.
Hope these help.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 26.01. 2014 07:48
G'day Anji.
Hope these help.
Cheers

Thanks Muskrat & Bill

Attaching some photos of the timing side crankcase. Cant see any scope for a flanged bush !! as the crank wont fit inside the cases.
Whats your take on this ?
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 26.01. 2014 08:04
Yep that's the bush. It's the type that has a steel outer and bronze inner. See how it fits between the two flats in the casing. Do not try to press the bronze bush out as they are sometimes pegged to the outer. To remove just heat the case to about 200 C and it will fall out.
While your there. Behind that screw is the oil retaining ball & spring (anti wet sump valve). Replace them
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: bsa-bill on 26.01. 2014 10:36
yep thats just as Muskrat states, the bush in my post is the other type used (solid brass/Phosfer bronze) so looks quite different to the one in your case - should of mentioned that *roll*
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: trevinoz on 26.01. 2014 20:04
And reseat the ball!
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 26.01. 2014 20:30
Good point I missed Trev. I buy two balls *eek*. I use one new one to tap onto the seat and trow it away and use the other new one.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: Marqs1979 on 28.01. 2014 21:14
Good point I missed Trev. I buy two balls *eek*. I use one new one to tap onto the seat and trow it away and use the other new one.
Cheers


I tested this as I have read about on this forum. Glued ball on a rod and used valve grinding compound.
(http://forumbilder.se/DBKCM/20140128-220617.jpg)
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: chaterlea25 on 28.01. 2014 22:11
HI All,
Be extremely careful when reseating the ball valves  *ex*
I would not grind in one in
The more the seating is hammered / punched / ground the wider the seating becomes
this lowers the spring pressure per sq mm and leads to leakage past the ball  *sad2*

HTH
John
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 29.01. 2014 08:00
Yep that's the bush. It's the type that has a steel outer and bronze inner. See how it fits between the two flats in the casing. Do not try to press the bronze bush out as they are sometimes pegged to the outer. To remove just heat the case to about 200 C and it will fall out.
While your there. Behind that screw is the oil retaining ball & spring (anti wet sump valve). Replace them
Cheers

Thanks muskrat. Already have the ball out & will replace after blowing out the galleries.
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 29.01. 2014 08:03
yep thats just as Muskrat states, the bush in my post is the other type used (solid brass/Phosfer bronze) so looks quite different to the one in your case - should of mentioned that *roll*

Thanx Bill
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: trevinoz on 29.01. 2014 19:54
Hi John,
             It seems that you are damned if you do, damned if you don't!   

Trev.
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: bikerboy on 19.02. 2014 03:57
Do we have to keep mentioning that damned ball that I forgot to do on my last rebuild  *sad2*
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 28.02. 2014 06:43
Thanks all forthe help
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 28.02. 2014 10:14
How far along have you got Anji?
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 03.03. 2014 06:53
How far along have you got Anji?
Cheers

Hi Muskrat
Great hearing from you. Trust all OK
Making progress slow & steady. You know how it is with a basket case. One of the bores was done off centre so had to have a special liner made to realign the centre line. Bores, head, bottom end done. Made new sludge trap nuts, SS nuts bolts studs all around. Mag reconditioned. Have to make new wheel axles as the ones that came were from some other M/c. By the way, are the BB33 ( swinging arm ) axles the same as the A7 ? I can get hold of one as a sample.

Frame painted, wheels ready with new spokes. So keep your fingers crossed.

Am gathering stuff for my 1961 Super Rocket which is next on the never ending list. Any idea where i can pick up spares for my 1952 Norton Inter 500 OHC. Need to start collecting spares for her now.

Will post some photos soon

Take care
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 03.03. 2014 12:35
Gee Anji, you don't mess around. Busier than a one armed wallpaper hanger.
A mate down here has a '61 SR that he bought new. Nice well sorted bikes.
Sorry can't help with the Notrun Inter bits. Anything for an Inter is almost as expensive as bits for a Manx. Good luck with it.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: wilko on 03.03. 2014 22:42
I'd like to see an offset liner??
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 04.03. 2014 11:11
I'd like to see an offset liner??

You wont  Wilko. What was done was to get a thicker liner centrifugally cast so that there was m/cng tolerance to shift the centre line back to where it should be. The normal liner wall thickness did not permit this. Sorry about the confusion & my inability to explain this first time around.

Take care
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 04.03. 2014 11:14
Hi

Another poser!!

Most service manuals mention the LH con rod having a oil hole above the big end & that it should face the crank web. My A7 has both con rods with holes!!!. Any suggestions ?
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: duTch on 04.03. 2014 12:45

I'm sure there was a thread on that very subject just a few days ago...?
Can't remember details though, but I'm sure out was a new one so shouldn't be hard to find
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: RichardL on 04.03. 2014 14:18
Anji ji,

Here is the link to the last discussion on oil holes in rods.
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=8089.msg56871#msg56871
There are probably 20 other strings on this topic.  Don't let the fact that I've made a lot of posts on this convince you that I'm any expert.  I just find it an interesting topic.  Anyway,  I've used up my being-wrong quota for the month.

Richard L.
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: trevinoz on 04.03. 2014 20:28
Didn't the late A65s have both rods drilled? But they also had larger capacity oil pumps.
It probably won't affect anything if you leave the rod as it is but if you want peace of mind you could fill the hole with an epoxy resin.

Trev.   
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: RichardL on 04.03. 2014 20:43
I think Trev means that you could fill the hole in the right-side rod, leaving the hole in the left to do whatever is does. Correct me if I've read you wrong Trev.

Richard
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: trevinoz on 04.03. 2014 20:46
No correction necessary, Richard.
Trev.
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 01.04. 2014 04:08
Hi guys
Back on the bike after a break . Need to take a decision on thr RH con rod. What should I do with the hole? Seal it ? If not which way should it face? Thanx
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 01.04. 2014 08:05
I'd seal it Anji. Just as a precaution. Don't want any oil to escape before it gets to the left side. It may make no difference but I'd err on the side of if it does it would hurt.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 01.04. 2014 10:58
I'd seal it Anji. Just as a precaution. Don't want any oil to escape before it gets to the left side. It may make no difference but I'd err on the side of if it does it would hurt.
Cheers

Thanx Muskrat. Youve made up my mind !!. Will do as you say & start the assesembly
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 02.04. 2014 08:47
Hi Muskrat

Will M Seal do for blocking the hole. Any suggestions ?
Thanks, Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 02.04. 2014 10:00
G'day Anji.
I did a google on M Seal. I can't speak Indian but I got a laugh out of their 1 minute Utube ad. *lol*
In a perfect world I'd use a big end shell without the hole. I do remember buying a set with only the hole in 1 shell. Can't remember where from  *dunno*. Any of those 2 pack epoxy adhesives like that would work. What I would do is countersink the hole (big end shell side) about 1/16" deep. Warm the rod and try to push it down the little hole as far as I could before finishing it off just below flush.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 10.04. 2014 15:25
G'day Anji.
I did a google on M Seal. I can't speak Indian but I got a laugh out of their 1 minute Utube ad. *lol*
In a perfect world I'd use a big end shell without the hole. I do remember buying a set with only the hole in 1 shell. Can't remember where from  *dunno*. Any of those 2 pack epoxy adhesives like that would work. What I would do is countersink the hole (big end shell side) about 1/16" deep. Warm the rod and try to push it down the little hole as far as I could before finishing it off just below flush.
Cheers

This is how I finally didi it. Used a BA tap in the offending hole & screwed in an Al screw using threadlock, finally punching the Al in the con rod to lock the screw. Kep your fingers crossed ??
Iam not able to figure out what the brg shim drive side does ? It is item 81 in the attached illustration. What are the 2 slots for? Is this some sort of seal also ? Sorry to sound like a yokel but Iam foxed
Thanks
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 10.04. 2014 20:43
G'day Anji.
It's a type of oil slinger, it guides oil splash back through the bearing. It is a "must have" part or your primary will fill with engine oil.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 11.04. 2014 09:00
G'day Anji.
It's a type of oil slinger, it guides oil splash back through the bearing. It is a "must have" part or your primary will fill with engine oil.
Cheers

Thanks Muskrat. What should be the end float on the crank. Mine is around 15. Thou which appears way too much. I remember a fig of 5 thou on my Flash
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 11.04. 2014 13:06
1.5 - 3 thou", 5 is the max limit.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 11.04. 2014 17:07
1.5 - 3 thou", 5 is the max limit.
Cheers

Thanks again Muskrat. I think I owe you a few crates of beer so why dont you come to India on a bike ride & we can split a few cases of Indian Lager !!!!!
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 15.04. 2014 09:20
1.5 - 3 thou", 5 is the max limit.
Cheers

Thanks again Muskrat. I think I owe you a few crates of beer so why dont you come to India on a bike ride & we can split a few cases of Indian Lager !!!!!
Anji

Does it make a difference if the Main roller brg has a lesser no of rollers viz a viz the original. Personally Cant imagine it should
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 15.04. 2014 11:01
All I could say is less rollers = less strength.
Maybe 1 or 2 at the max might be OK
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 15.04. 2014 11:08
All I could say is less rollers = less strength.
Maybe 1 or 2 at the max might be OK

Hi Muskrat.
This is a japanese brg KOYO ( 206 ) which I have used succesfully in the past. Roller dia is slightly bigger & theres 1 less roller. As you say, shouldnt make a difference. Anyways, no choice as no other makes available.
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 25.04. 2014 08:51
Hi guys

Any simple way of removing the inner race of the main roller brg w/o damaging the cage. Dont have any special brg pullers ?
thanks
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 25.04. 2014 09:44
G'day Anji.
Have a look here  http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=368.msg1717#msg1717
The bearings with the plastic cage are easy to pop the rollers out, then use a bearing puller on the outer ridge.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: RichardL on 25.04. 2014 10:57
First of all, I'm honored that my contraption bearing puller is seen as useful, particularly by the likes of Muskrat.  There are two things that, I think, might need mentioning:

Just now is the first time I considered the "walking" issue, so, I have cleared my conscience by describing the possibility of distorting the inner race. A puller along the same lines, but with more even pulling force would be possible, also, some heat might help.

Richard L.
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 25.04. 2014 14:34
Flattery will get you everywhere Richard.
The only thing to add to your puller, is a central bolt to work on the end of the shaft like a normal puller.
Once it's set up and tension is applied, boiling water over the bearing should get it moving.

With a bit of care, determination and a bit of gentle force the rollers in a steel cage can be removed. On reassembly the tangs of the cage need to be peened back in a tad to hold the rollers.
Cheers
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 26.04. 2014 13:02
Thanks guys for your help. Will try & get a puller made.

Another query for Muskrat. What rotates the oil slinger behind the roller brg ? Is it the pressure of the fixed cush drive ( 88 ) pressing it against the inner race. Just sorting out my head before putting it all back together.
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: anjimehra on 29.04. 2014 12:56
Thanks guys for your help. Will try & get a puller made.

Another query for Muskrat. What rotates the oil slinger behind the roller brg ? Is it the pressure of the fixed cush drive ( 88 ) pressing it against the inner race. Just sorting out my head before putting it all back together.
Anji
Muskrat, are you there ? Need your expert advice
Anji
Title: Re: 1951 BSA A7
Post by: muskrat on 29.04. 2014 14:36
G'day Anji, sorry mate I forgot to get back to you.
Yes you are right.
Cheers