The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Lucas, Electrical, Ignition => Topic started by: FoxDK on 01.06. 2014 15:38

Title: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: FoxDK on 01.06. 2014 15:38
Hallo,

After a breakdown yesterday, it quickly became clear that there was no ignition is on my BSA A10, Golden Flash.

I have then discovered that some engine oil has come into the magneto (Lucas K2F), by screwing out the magneto earth brush screw. Both the slip ring and the earth brush screw is pretty oily. If I clean the screw a slip ring, the engine will run a short time, before the get oily again and die.

So I would think, that the oil seal on the magneto end, need to be replaced?

Is that a difficult job to do? Will i need any special tools? I have the tools to remove the magneto form the engine.

Regards Frederik

Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: groily on 01.06. 2014 16:06
Hi Frederick,
It's actually a bit of a job because you have to be able to extract the outer race of the drive end bearing from the magneto body. Getting the armature etc out isn't too bad - just be sure to remove the safety spark gap screws before pulling the thing out.
If you're going to replace the oil seal, you'll also need a new insulator to go behind the bearing race, and you may find you have to do some shimming (usually behind the inner race of the contact breaker end bearing or between the magneto body and the contact breaker end housing) to obtain the correct endfloat after the changes. So all in all, not terribly hard, but delicate and it needs tools, as well as a few parts.
It's worth saying, though, that magnetos will quite often operate with a fair bit of oil in them! So it may be there are some other factors that could be contributing to the problems you have got.
Good luck,
Bill
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: a10gf on 01.06. 2014 16:15
^^^ and take a look in here > http://www.a7a10.net/BSA/manual54/magneto.pdf for some details of the inner parts + maintenance. The bearing may sit tight, use heat, oil, patience, good tools etc.
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: FoxDK on 01.06. 2014 20:23

Thank You both for your answers. I don't think that I will be able to do that by myself.

I will contact a workshop, and sent them my magneto.

Regards Frederik

Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 01.06. 2014 23:18
Are the drain holes clear?
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: wilko on 02.06. 2014 01:13
Nightmare job. You'll need a few spare insulating washers before you get it right. I'll never bother with it again.
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: FoxDK on 02.06. 2014 07:52

I do not suppose that the drain holes are clear, but the oil should not get into the magneto at all, after my opinion  *smiley4*

Ok. It sounds difficult. I have considered an electronic ignition.

Have any of You any experiences with this electronic ignition?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIF-K2F-MAGNETO-ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-KIT-COMPLETE-REPLACEMENT-BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-/400709592652?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4c27264c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIF-K2F-MAGNETO-ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-KIT-COMPLETE-REPLACEMENT-BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-/400709592652?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4c27264c)
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: morris on 02.06. 2014 09:39
Looks very similar to the kit I got from Paul Goff. Remember you'll also need to convert to 12v (battery, bulbs etc) and need to install a switch.
Paul Goff's Kit comes complete with that, and installation is very straightforward.

Just have a look here;
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=8219.0

and here;
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffypazon.htm
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: chaterlea25 on 02.06. 2014 18:34
Hi Frederik
Is the engine breather is not operating correctly?
Excess crankcase pressure can cause oil to be forced into the magneto
Does the bike drip oil from the breather outlet?
Maybe the oil has built up over a long period and cleaning the mag out  will give you an opportunity to see if theres theres a need to spend lots of €,£,$'s
I would remove the points end of the magneto and flush it out with some aerosol brake cleaner and check the drain holes,.

Regards
John
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: charles whitfield on 02.06. 2014 19:35
Good advice from Bill about replacing the insulator
I had a mystery misfire for a while which was very irritating
The symptom? -  under acceleration, it would miss and then run unpredictably
In the end I found that the insulator had almost disintegrated, which in turn, under load, allowed the bearing to momentarily earth the Mag out
Very pleasing moment when I found it though! - more learning
I also learned that the Mag is much older than my engine, but at least it still works
   
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 02.06. 2014 21:45

I do not suppose that the drain holes are clear, but the oil should not get into the magneto at all, after my opinion  *smiley4*

Ok. It sounds difficult. I have considered an electronic ignition.

Have any of You any experiences with this electronic ignition?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIF-K2F-MAGNETO-ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-KIT-COMPLETE-REPLACEMENT-BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-/400709592652?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4c27264c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIF-K2F-MAGNETO-ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-KIT-COMPLETE-REPLACEMENT-BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-/400709592652?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d4c27264c)

Looks not as good or as cheap as sending your magneto to Tony Cooper.
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: FoxDK on 03.06. 2014 14:51
I've thought some time about it, and I have choosed to give the magneto a second chance. I'll disconnect the magneto and send it to repair. I will make them aware of the insulator.

John - Where is the engine breather placed? How do i check it?

Tony Cooper - Is this him? http://www.tms-motorcycles.co.uk/info/about_tms.asp (http://www.tms-motorcycles.co.uk/info/about_tms.asp)

Thanks for the help!  *smiley4*

Regards Frederik
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: madsens on 03.06. 2014 16:24
Hi FoxDK
Are you a member of the danish BSA club?

There is a member of BSA.dk , Flemming, lives in Galten, Jutland - the wizard of magnetoes, then you wouldn't need to send it that far away?

If you are a member you should be able to look him up, or get i contact with him through our chairman Bent...

regards
Joergen

Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: a101960 on 03.06. 2014 17:23
Quote
Tony Cooper - Is this him?

No that is not Tony Cooper. Tony does not have a website. His contact details are as shown below.

Tony Cooper Motorcycles
110, Olive Lane,
Halesowen,
West Midlands,
B62 8LT

Tel 0121 5592405
Fax 0121 5612410

Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: chaterlea25 on 03.06. 2014 19:33
Hi, Frederik
The breather outlet is at the rear of the crankcase on the left side, see photos here
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=5072.msg34620#msg34620
and
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php/topic,3612.msg24823.html#msg24823

When you have the timing cover off to remove the magneto check the rotating breather sleeve in the inner cover
it should NOT have any end float,
End float is taken up by fitting a thicker cork washer between the cam gear and sleeve
Do you have a manual or BSA service sheets??

Regards
John
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 03.06. 2014 20:03
I'm not saying that's a bad electronic ignition, nor that electronic ignition is "bad."

It's just that the pre-unit riding experience is usually better with a good magneto, than with electronic ignition powered by a dynamo.

All expert bike modifiers please note that I said "usually."
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: FoxDK on 04.06. 2014 19:37


Joergen - No, i'm not a member yet  ;) But I have talked with "Brødrene Stevns", about that they will look at my Magneto. But thanks for the reply.

John - Ok, thank You. I have checked the breather outlet, it ok. No blockages.

It's maybe a stupid question, but what can end float in the rotating breather sleeve, result in?

Yes, I have the "Haynes Workshop Manual " for A7 and A10.

Regards Frederik





Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: muskrat on 04.06. 2014 20:38
G'day Fred.
Best to start a new topic with an unrelated question in a topic.
To answer the breather ? End float of the cam + noisy followers. At worst case scenario the cam could pick up two followers and big costly damage would result. The corks going between the cam pinion and breather come in different thicknesses and the one chosen will be squashed about 0.5 mm by the inner timing cover. Too much squash will cause cam bush and breather wear and make it stiff to turn over.
Cheers 
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: duTch on 04.06. 2014 22:38

 Can't recall if I needed to do it, but if the cork was too thin (causing float), I considered the idea of gasket paper shims behind the cork to pack it out, if need be...?

 (at least as an interim measure)
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: chaterlea25 on 04.06. 2014 23:38
Hi, Frederik
Quote
It's maybe a stupid question, but what can end float in the rotating breather sleeve, result in?

It causes pressure build up in the engine leading to oil being blown out the breather and leakage from gaskets etc

Musky,
As far as I can tell ??
The cam gear should control the end float on the camshaft , the cam being held by the shoulder inside the cases and the gear pressed home fully onto the cam at the timing case side ????

John
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: muskrat on 05.06. 2014 11:04
Your right John  *respect*, I had it idiot about face *red*. If the cork is too thick it can cause wear of the thrust face of the bush, the cam moves inward and all hell breaks loose. I have seen the remnants of it happening. There is usually a little end float and the cork takes it up.
Cheers
Title: Re: Oil leakage in the magneto
Post by: FoxDK on 05.06. 2014 21:28

Ok. I understand. The Magneto is now disconnected and sent to service.

It was because that John in a previous post, mentioned that I should check than float when I have the timing cover pulled off. But now I understand  ;)

I will check the end float, when i hopefully install the magneto again soon. (I have not the bike nearby at the time).

Best regards,

Frederik