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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: Derby Rob on 22.06. 2014 21:05

Title: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Derby Rob on 22.06. 2014 21:05
well,
         it started off a nice sunny sunday morning ride,did about 50 miles and heading home and thinking to myself "done almost 800 trouble miles free since rebuild ,i must have done it right!) .Then bang,splutter bang dead!.hummm oh dear i thought,(well not quite what i thought).Luckily i was in a little village called Hulland Ward and managed to coast to the pub car park,opened the tool box,luckily had a fifty pence coin to do that......fuel ok ......air filter new......spark....no spark! ,checked the plugs,looked ok? so what could it be? took end off the mag and turned over the engine.The points were not moving!.
     This is a little bit more than a road side repair i thought.Thank god i took out break down cover.so rang the break down help line and within 45 minute a break down truck arrived ,i was expecting hours.
     The driver got out of the truck and asked if the plugs were ok etc,etc.After telling him i had checked all the normal things we strapped in to to his truck and he took me home to the *** taking teenage children and their friends!
     Any way straight to the shed, found the problem .........teeth missing from the auto advance/retard unit.new parts ordered and unit stripped waiting for parts, a job for next weekend!
    Time for a drink and think about the joys of vintage motorcycling!

cheers Rob
   
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 22.06. 2014 21:23
Tufnol teeth are a weak point.

Keep strain off them when you tighten or loosen the nut.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: muskrat on 23.06. 2014 09:17
And the joys are. 1 you found the problem. 2 you can fix it yourself and won't need a 2nd mortgage on the house.
Imagine if it was a yzcbkzgs 1000 and your laptop and multimeter had flat batteries. *problem*
Cheers
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Topdad on 23.06. 2014 10:17
I'd say more likely age and oil,I was often told by my Uncle and Dad that when new tufnell was sold as stronger than or at least equifilent to the metal alternative , NCB used it on all there load bearing winch gear ,with the added benefit of no possible sparks , good to hear you got it sorted cheers BobH
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Greybeard on 23.06. 2014 18:20
NCB used it on all there load bearing winch gear ,with the added benefit of no possible sparks
I presume that's the UK National Coal Board
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Tomcat on 24.06. 2014 09:02
It would be a good idea to check for movement in the magneto bearings too. My understanding is that the gears wear quickly and break because of this. Also may just be worn out from 60 odd years of service! Cheers Tomcat
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Topdad on 24.06. 2014 11:10
Yeb ,thats right Graybeard. regards BobH
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Derby Rob on 24.06. 2014 19:58
hi,
    just an update ,the new fiber gear has arrived......................its in a wassell bag!!!!!!!

any thoughts or comments or has anyone fitted one of these items? after my wassell voltage regulator i am a bit nervous!
i dont want to do the job twice.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: bsa-bill on 24.06. 2014 21:46
sometimes it's a case of the devil you know or nothing  *conf*
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: charles whitfield on 24.06. 2014 22:49
Been there also, I fitted a Duralumin replacement. I think it was an SRM or Draganfly unit
No probs since
Cheers
Charles
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Brian on 25.06. 2014 04:08
I also fitted a alloy one about 20,000 miles ago. Cant fault it but I'm not sure if they are still available, you could try SRM.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: bsa-bill on 25.06. 2014 11:01
I bought a solid Alloy one Brian to replace the A/R was a bit tight but works fine, now I didn't know you could get ally ones for the A/R unit or are they the same
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Brian on 25.06. 2014 12:13
The ones for the auto A/R are different to the manual A/R ones. I had a look on the net and the manual ones are available but I couldnt find any auto ones. Might be worth a call or e-mail to SRM to see if they are available.

It may be possible to machine a manual one to make it fit the auto unit.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: beezermacc on 26.06. 2014 00:19
Wassell ones are absolutely fine. I use them all the time. The only mod which needs doing is countersinking the holes to allow for the backs of the rivets on the ATD backing plate. By countersinking the large holes to about 13mm wide you also improve the alignment of the rivet holes. I do the mod before I send them out. I would also strongly advise finding out why the teeth have stripped off your old one. Fibre gears are used in gear trains as 'sacrificial components' to protect more expensive parts if something seizes. It is highly unlikely that anything is going to seize in the magneto but I have seen two instances of the through bolts, which pass through the armature, snapping. This caused the armature coil to move off centre and rub against the inside of the mag body. In both instances the bikes ran poorly so the mags were removed before they seized. However it is possible to imagine the mag seizing and the Tuffnol ATD gear stripping.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Greybeard on 26.06. 2014 16:17
Wassell ones are absolutely fine. I use them all the time.

That line doesn't sound like a very good advert for Wassell!! ;)
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Derby Rob on 26.06. 2014 20:21
hi everyone,
                    thanks for all the advice,just an update,got the gear wheel and springs but was finding it hard to get the gear wheel rivets,until after a few hours on the internet found this

https://sites.google.com/site/priorymagnetos/magneto-atd-spares

so have the kit and a spare set of rivets, £19 for the kit and £6 for the extra rivets (to give me one complete spare set) not a bad price i thought and you also get full instruction with photos! and the last bit of the instructions tells you to go down the pub! honest.
 Not sure why the teeth stripped off the wheel yet ,as i have only taken off the outer timing case to remove the atd.The magneto was full rebuilt before fitting by the "magneto guys" although i never rebuilt the atd ,so i am hoping it just stripped due to its age ,should hopefully find out more at the weekend.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: bsa-bill on 26.06. 2014 20:50
My Flash had a couple of adjacent teeth broken when I got it, not entirely off but couldn't have been meshing by much.

Fancy finding that website - rings a bell or two here ;)
We are blessed with bountiful knowledge and experience in this forum

Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: cyclobutch on 27.06. 2014 08:50
Yeah. Got a VP in the office here who's really good at giving up smoking. He does it most years.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Derby Rob on 29.06. 2014 19:23
hi,
    well got the parts,and fixed the atd.had a little trouble setting the timing up though,it seems i was setting the right hand cylinder up with the top cam on the mag and not the bottom one!.
    Cleaned out the inner timing case but no parts of the missing /worn teeth were found.Changed the oil and cleaned out oil tank filter.
    The bike started first kick! ,great i thought,got the top off the oil tank and checked the oil return.It had just started to spit oil back when the engine just stopped,tried to restart it but............................it had seized!(less than a minute running)
    I can only guess that parts of the old fiber gear must have blocked some thing in the oil system? so looks like an engine rebuild at least.Got to finish my rebuild of my suzuki ts 250 er first to give me some room in the shed.
  So i guess thats the end of this summers bsa riding.
Like i said before .....the joys of vintage bikes!  *sad2*



Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: muskrat on 29.06. 2014 21:12
Another Bugga tale. I can't see how a bit of tuffnol swarf could cause that. It may block the gauze over the sump plate or even cover a bush dribble feed hole, but to cause a lock up  *????*
Good luck.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Derby Rob on 29.06. 2014 21:37
hi,
    just guessing about the tuffnol swarf muskrat,but i did clean the out the sump gauze (nothing of interest in it).I wont really know until i pull it apart.Although the left cylinder exhaust smelt hot just before it all stopped. *sad2*
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: chaterlea25 on 01.07. 2014 00:20
Hi Rob,
Comiserations *sad2*
Refer back to reply 13 for a possible cause ???

John
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: gold33 on 01.07. 2014 06:12
Oh Dear!
I spent a few days asking everyone I could think of that might know whether I should clean out the trap change the oil and install a new fibre gear or strip the engine... I stripped the engine; still in pieces but I'm glad I did it (Thanks Musky) I found fibre bits everywhere except the sludge trap! 
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: muskrat on 01.07. 2014 10:31
G'day Darren, long time no hear. So that's why.
Cheers
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: beezermacc on 02.07. 2014 08:22
Wassell ones are absolutely fine. I use them all the time.

That line doesn't sound like a very good advert for Wassell!! ;)
I don't understand the comment above as I have repaired dozens of ATD's and supplied dozens of happy customers with my ATD repair kits. All four of my A10's have Wassells fibre gears and I've never had a problem with them. Sorry, just feeling a bit narked........
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: bsa-bill on 02.07. 2014 08:38


Quote
Quote from: beezermacc on 26.06. 2014 00:19

    Wassell ones are absolutely fine. I use them all the time.


That line doesn't sound like a very good advert for Wassell!! ;)

I got that one beeermacc  (meaning if they were good you only use them once - relevant if you had just one bike)), but since you brought it up I suddenly realised Cyclobutch's remark about a CEO in his office giving up smoking (finds it easy does it all the time) was maybe in the wrong thread, I couldn't understand how that was relevant in the thread it was in  :!
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Greybeard on 02.07. 2014 09:31
Wassell ones are absolutely fine. I use them all the time.

That line doesn't sound like a very good advert for Wassell!! ;)
I don't understand the comment above as I have repaired dozens of ATD's and supplied dozens of happy customers with my ATD repair kits. All four of my A10's have Wassells fibre gears and I've never had a problem with them. Sorry, just feeling a bit narked........

I was going for humour; hence the winking emoticon. No offence was intended.
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: Derby Rob on 20.10. 2014 21:20
hi,
    well finally got round to having a look at the engine at last! .Although it will now turn over i didn`t want to try to run it again as i was sure it would seize up again when it got a little warm.
    I was not sure what to do next now that it will turn over,so still with the thought of blocked sludge trap/oil ways i decided that the only course of action was to take out the engine and fully strip it down.This was the only thing to do to put my mind at rest.
And thinking that there would be no more riding weather this side of next easter!.

Well the following weekend the engine was fully stripped ,washed and blown out with an air line ,crank sludge traps removed etc.The sludge traps were clear and the oil way all seemed clear,the only seized/tight part was the steel breather "top hat bit" in to the inner alloy timing case!.
I know if you fit a cork gasket thats too thick behind it and tighten up the timing case it will be enough to stop you turning over the engine .I have done this before ,and posted the results on this forum! i ended up with an home made cardboard gasket under the cork one to get a nice fit and stop the oil leaks.I have run like this for a few hundred miles before the breakdown.
So just before i put it all back together (breather hole in the timing case all cleaned an polished up) has any body else had this kind of problem before?

ps. both bores,pistons and rings ok

Any comments before i start to rebuild welcome 

Cheers Rob
Title: Re: nice ride,until..........
Post by: duTch on 20.10. 2014 22:50

( I think) I did the same thing, but used gasket paper- so far so good, ~5K miles.
 Only thing I can think of is the cardboard might've swollen...? especially if it was a cereal box... *conf*

I remember this below- picked up on GB straight way, thought it funny but let it ride, it's the kinda crap thing I'd say- was probably peeved that GB beat me to it.... *smile*

Quote
Quote from: beezermacc on 02.07. 2014 08:22

    Quote from: Graybeard on 26.06. 2014 16:17

        Quote from: beezermacc on 26.06. 2014 00:19

            Wassell ones are absolutely fine. I use them all the time.


        That line doesn't sound like a very good advert for Wassell!! ;)

    I don't understand the comment above as I have repaired dozens of ATD's and supplied dozens of happy customers with my ATD repair kits. All four of my A10's have Wassells fibre gears and I've never had a problem with them. Sorry, just feeling a bit narked........


I was going for humour; hence the winking emoticon. No offence was intended.