The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical => Clutch, Primary, Gearbox => Topic started by: wortluck on 04.07. 2015 15:05

Title: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 04.07. 2015 15:05
Afternoon All

I'm new to this forum (today) and new to British bikes generally.  Previously owned/restored 1959 BMW R60/1 (totally reliable and bulletproof!!)

My recent restoration is a 1962 Golden Flash which looks gorgeous but poses some questions.  Firstly, the primary chain case has a normal bolt at the bottom which, I understand, should house a drain/level plug assembly.  However, in all the literature I've read so far, the level and drain on this model are ascertained by using the chaincase screws 2nd and 4th from left respectively.  Do I have a cover from an earlier model??

Also, how sensitive is the clutch to slipping if you put in a wee bit more oil than recommended?  The oil in the chaincase was half way up the bottom race of the chain (so not covering it completely), but I've noticed the clutch starting to slip a little.  Have I cocked up here?

Finally, for now, and not necessarily for this section, does anyone have a good fix for the piece of crap that is the pre-focus bulb holder.  How BSA/Lucas could see two terminals floating on springs and twisting every which way could properly engage with the bulb terminals is beyond me.  I have thought about converting it, but may opt for putting solder on the bulb to form a small recess to hold the wire terminals in place.  Anyhow, any suggestions would be welcome apart from chucking the thing in the bin ('cause I'd thought of that!!)

Apologies in advance for ignorance or anything that offends the diehards who can effect an engine rebuild before breakfast.
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: a101960 on 04.07. 2015 15:37
Welcome to the forum wortluck. To answer question 1, no you have not got the wrong chain case. Illustration from A10 owners instruction book below. Question 2, yes that is far to much oil. Best practice is that there should be just enough oil in the case for the chain to pick up when the engine is running. BSA specified 8 fluid ounces (225cc). And, while on the topic of primary chain oil, you might find that ATF (automatic transmission fluid) is better than the recommended oil. Another advantage of ATF is that it helps identify leaks. If you get a leak that is red in colour, you will no for sure that it is the primary cover that is leaking, and not the engine. There should not be a problem with the BPF type bulb holder. I have always found them to be effective and reliable. What is exactly the problem that you are having? Lovely bike by the way. You have done a really good job.
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Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: RichardL on 04.07. 2015 16:07
Wortluck,

Welcome.  *welcome* Glad you could join us. I couldn't believe you were apologizing for anything, because that is a beautiful job you've done there.

According to Roy Bacon, 1960 was the year BSA introduced the bottom drain plug. I guess this is why A101960 knew the answer right away. I'll type out what Bacon says (to avoid copyright issues):

In 1960 further changes were introduced, both large and small...The primary chaincase oil level and drain were incorporated in one combined plug screwed up into the underside of the case. The larger of the two concentric hexagons was the drain, and extended up as a standpipe, whose top came to the required oil level. The smaller hexagon was a bolt whose removal allowed any excess oil to run down the standpipe until the required level was obtained.

Richard L.
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: a10gf on 04.07. 2015 16:09
Welcome aboard, nice bike indeed! Maybe a dedicated introduction\pictures post in Bikes, Pictures & Members? (to keep the tech section tech only, and the Bikes\Pictures praise only :O)
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 04.07. 2015 16:39
Cheers for the welcome folks, and for instantly answering questions I've been asking for ages without success (should have signed up sooner).

I'll drain off the chaincase oil and put the proper amount in!!  Do you reckon the clutch slip will resolve itself or will I need to strip and clean the plates?  Oh, and do you know where I can find the correct drain/level plug at a fair price?

As for the bpf bulb holder, I find it near impossible to maintain a solid contact between the wire terminals and the bulb terminals.  The reason - as you twist the holder on, the wires twist round on their springs and end up in the wrong place.  Seems it would make more sense to find a way of preventing the wires rotating as you screw the holder on.  Maybe it's my technique, but I still reckon it could have been designed better.

Incidentally, just to make your afternoon more exciting, has anyone had a problem with the left hand down pipe fouling the front footrest nut.  The nut is the correct 'slim' type, but the angle of the down pipe takes it so close to it I've had to put a depression in the pipe to fit round the nut (and to line up with the silencer).  New downpipes came with the bike so don't know where they're from.  Could be that the stud and nut aren't quite right as I've seen studs with a nut 'welded' on the end to make it less obstructive to the downpipe. 

Lastly, and it's probably an ignition problem, but I've got a wicked misfire from the r/h pot and it can be a *&^%^* to start - I'm thinking mag???

Cheers again, nice to be amongst people that ride rather than stare.
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: bikerbob on 04.07. 2015 19:55
Really nice looking bike you have there. In regard to your down pipes and silencers I have restored a few bikes and have yet to buy a set of pipes and silencers that have fitted without some kind of work sometimes it is just elongating the fixing holes but sometimes I have had to modify the fixing brackets "they don't make them like they used to" About your misfiring  and bad starting it could be the magneto but before taking it off the bike I would be checking other components first  such as plugs, leads,  magneto pick ups, points  I have found brand new plugs to be faulty try swapping things around from one side to the other and see if the problem changes sides.
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: RichardL on 04.07. 2015 22:46
  Oh, and do you know where I can find the correct drain/level plug at a fair price?

I often look at the British Only Austria site because they provide photos for virtually everything they have. I think this might be what you're asking about. Notice that it doesn't include the plug. I would be surprised if Draganfly, Burton Bike Bits, C&D Auto and others (on British soil) didn't have the same thing.

http://vintage-motorcycle.com/index.php?language=en&site=4&pid=198&id=302&suchtext=Drain&limit=20

Richard L.

UPDATE: Yes, Draganfly has it here: https://www.draganfly.co.uk/index.php/accessories-a-misc/product/9042-

and they also have the plug
.
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: bsa-bill on 05.07. 2015 09:00
Quote
How BSA/Lucas could see two terminals floating on springs and twisting every which way could properly engage with the bulb terminals is beyond me

the answer to that is probably that they made them so that they did, as opposed to factories in China that churn out a few thousand in a day and sell on to a big distributor who sells them on to our dealers at a price we all think is great but then have to bodge a bit to get to work. I think? I used a blob of silicon to limit the movement.
I base this only on my recollections of never having a problem with lights back in the day, my recollections are of course not as reliable as used to be and not as clear as the rose coloured glasses that I now have to peer through (actually some sort of £50 add on fluorescent blue coating that Boots told me would improve my sight but I think more of a fashion thing as I can't see it only people looking at me can, my cannie Scot's side let me down on that occasion)
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 05.07. 2015 09:53
Thanks for all the info and advice, very much appreciated.

It's nice to know that some of the problems are shared by others.  I don't consider myself an expert (yet!) and have much to learn, but at least not all my problems are due to my cock ups *whistle*!  By the way, I did have a lot of fun removing the old bushes from the swinging arm, and equally as much fun trying to reinstall the arm itself *work* *pull hair out*!!!!

I'll check out the links, thanks for taking the time to check it out for me.

On the lights, they are working but do tend to be a bit shaky when you breathe on them *doh*  I think I'll check out the silicon solution or try a mod of my own - will keep you posted as to what works best.

Ride safe
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 18.07. 2015 14:18
Afternoon All

Just to bring an end to this thread, I can report the following:

Headlamp and bulb have now found a happy position and are working (for now!)

Poor starting and running was due to closed up points (couldn't get a fag paper between them!).  I set them myself and it runs beautifully.

Clutch slip problem seems to have resolved itself after over-filling the chaincase and works well (6 spring type).

Kickstarter problem (jamming) also seems to have sorted itself out.  Rolled it out after a week in the garage, tickled it, fired first kick.

Not sure about the loss of power under heavy load, might be down to my urgency on the throttle than anything more serious.  It has been suggested I try super unleaded for its higher octane rating, or maybe using an additive, don't think there'd be a problem in trying.

I'll try to keep threads to the relevant area in future.

Cheers all
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: muskrat on 18.07. 2015 14:40
Good to hear wortluck. A bit of patience, thought and cash goes a long way on our bikes.
If you run high octane fuel you might have to advance the timing a bit ( from 5/16" to 11/32" or 3/8") to enjoy the benefits.
Cheers
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 18.07. 2015 15:54
Cheers Muskrat

I'm finding out that owning British iron takes a fair bit of all the things you mention.  Nevertheless, it's worth it, you just can't beat the riding experience or sound of that motor down a bit of twisty road in the Yorkshire Dales whilst watching the sheep scatter and ignoring the disapproving looks of rural village dwellers.  ;D
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: bsa-bill on 18.07. 2015 17:36
Quote
ignoring the disapproving looks of rural village dwellers.

Being a life long rural dweller I think you'll find genuine dyed in the wool rural village dwellers are fine with the sound of any old British machines, it's the moved out from the town by paying house prices young rural dwellers can not afford and think they have the right to a type of village life that never existed type of rural village dweller you need to look out for, please feel free to counter their disapproving looks with a full throttle blast *smile*
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 19.07. 2015 09:42
Thanks for putting me right on this Bill, now you've given me the chance to distinguish between the out-of-towners and proper village folk - scowls from the former and grins from the latter  *good3*
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: duTch on 19.07. 2015 09:51
  *????*
Quote
scowls from the former and grins from the latter

 I know I'm going blind, but did I read that wrong again...?
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 19.07. 2015 11:44
Don't know Dutch, how did you read it??
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: duTch on 19.07. 2015 20:55

 
Quote
....scowls from the former and grins from the latter

   (Former);
Quote
Being a life long rural dweller I think you'll find genuine dyed in the wool rural village dwellers are fine with the sound of any old British machines,.....

   (Latter);
 
Quote
it's the moved out from the town by paying house prices young rural dwellers can not afford and think they have the right to a type of village life that never existed type of rural village dweller you need to look out for, please feel free to counter their disapproving looks with a full throttle blast *smile*
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 19.07. 2015 22:08
"Thanks for putting me right on this Bill, now you've given me the chance to distinguish between the out-of-towners and proper village folk - scowls from the former and grins from the latter"

No mate, the former and latter I'm referring to are not in former and latter posts, but the former and latter subjects of my sentence, i.e, the former are the out-of-towners (scowling  *rant*) and the latter are the proper village folk (grinning  ;D) - see highlighted above.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: duTch on 20.07. 2015 00:30

    *conf*

I know I joke about   being dyslexic, but didn't really think I was......
 * dunno*   
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 20.07. 2015 07:49
Heh, I don't think it's a case of dyslexia Dutch, more a severe case of thinking outside the box(room!), maybe  *beer*
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: bsa-bill on 20.07. 2015 08:34
Quote
I know I joke about   being dyslexic,

I blame these Chinese keyboards  *smile*
but I do type a lot of two letters transposed as in "blimye" for blimey, it is however very often the same two letters cause the problem si might be my fingers not my mind.
In view of the confusion I've managed in this thread, I've decided to withdraw my application for Poet Laureate for this year at least *roll*
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: duTch on 20.07. 2015 10:03
 
No wortluck, you stitched me up by putting the latter former, and the former latter.... *fight*



   However it pans out just go back and give those Yuppies a earfull...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By0AOWGE89U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By0AOWGE89U)
The guy bangin' skins here picked me up hitchhiking when I was sixteen, (he's a year younger), in his Dad's Statesman- we come from the same town/area
   
                         *beer*    *welcome*
Title: Re: Wrong Primary Chaincase?
Post by: wortluck on 20.07. 2015 10:55
Heh, sorry Dutch, looks like I can do a decent stitch-up job without even trying (cackle) - a bit like your cricket team thrashing the nuts off ours without even trying  *problem*.

Nice Youtube clip and story.  My only claim to fame is that I went to school with Ozzy Osbourne's stepson (Ozzy had a house about five miles from where I lived)  *wink2*.