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Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Chat, Offtopic, Meetings & Everything Else => Topic started by: Greybeard on 31.08. 2015 13:10

Title: UK road speeds
Post by: Greybeard on 31.08. 2015 13:10
In the car I tend to look at my GPS for my speed: it's supposed to be very accurate, (at least on flat ground) and if accurate it means my car speedo shows about 10% lower speed than the GPS; so when GPS shows 70mph; car speedo shows 77mph. Vehicles sticking to the UK maximums are often traveling frustratingly slowly as far as I'm concerned!

The law on our motorways states that the middle lane is for vehicles to use when passing slow moving vehicles in the 'slow' lane but only up to a maximum speed of 70mph, (112kmh). The outer lane is/was intended for overtaking only, (max 70mph). If a law-abiding driver wants to pass a line of slow moving traffic and has a normal inaccurate speedo he may be hogging the middle lane for miles and really only doing 65mph!!! Really, the rules on UK road speeds need to be reviewed. I don't think any government would want to be accused of making the roads more dangerous though so I can't see it happening.
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: muskrat on 31.08. 2015 13:35
What I can't understand is that modern cars/bikes/trucks are a lot safer and brake better than 20 years ago. The roads are in better nick and they're taking all my favorite bends out, adding more armco and concrete barriers. And yet every time a drugged out 18 yo has a prang they drop the speed limit *conf*.
Cheers
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 31.08. 2015 14:14
Quote
I don't think any government would want to be accused of making the roads more dangerous

If I recall correctly the present limits were to preserve fuel in one of those fuel shortage periods
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Greybeard on 31.08. 2015 14:25
If I recall correctly the present limits were to preserve fuel in one of those fuel shortage periods

Legend has it that the 70mph limit on motorways was introduced in the 60's after an AC Cobra drove up the M1 at something like 150mph; but this article doesn't mention that incident:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 31.08. 2015 15:16
I thought the first motorway/dual carriage limit was 80 mph and later reduced to 70, can't find anything to back that up tho, of course prior to 70 mph then there was no limit apart from most family cars would struggle to get near 80  way back then
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Greybeard on 31.08. 2015 15:23
It's all there in that Wikipedia article BSA-Bill
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Klaus on 31.08. 2015 15:46
Be happy, they scrap the "red flag act" *clap*
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: beezermacc on 31.08. 2015 17:24
In my opinion the problem is congestion rather than speed. Logically, the slower everybody goes the less accidents there will be and the less likely people will get hurt or killed. However, most accidents involve more than one vehicle, often because we are all competing for the same piece of tarmac. With so many cars and bikes in our vicinity there is often too much moving traffic for our senses to cope with - i.e. visual information overload and our brains find it difficult to process and prioritise all this stuff going on in a moving picture. On the motorways we are forced to drive much too close to other vehicles so that we don't have enough reaction time when unexpected things happen. Accidents involving only one vehicle are rare and are usually confined to careless parking, lack of concentration etc. OK there are some lunies and alcies driving into lampposts but no amount of speed limits are going to deter them.
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: muskrat on 31.08. 2015 20:57
"OK there are some lunies and alcies driving into lampposts but no amount of speed limits are going to deter them." That's exactly what I mean beezermac, but our gumbient's knee jerk reaction is to keep lowering the speed limit or paint double lines everywhere.
I look at all other vehicles and think "how are you going to stuff my day".
Cheers   
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Butch (cb) on 01.09. 2015 08:28
I’m presuming it is all about overall accident, death and injury stats. (What follows is a diatribe based upon pure ignorance of the matter). Most governments have a policy of looking for continuous reduction on these. Now if you look at general standards of driving it is pretty abysmal. So you might suppose that overall, better training and a tougher test might do the job. Even better, supply a decent level of public transport and leave the roads for the enthusiasts. However, the simplest (cheapest) course has been taken whereby cars are being built tougher and tougher and speed limits generally are reducing. Hence you have you accident at lower speed and the strength of the car allows you to walk away from it. As most people are traveling by car any raised stats amongst other road users are negated. Hooray – problem solved.

Going back to the original premise of this thread though – yes it sucks all of the pleasure out of the driving/riding experience. Where you used to be doing a ‘good’ 60 in a 60 limit you are now stuck behind some numpty doing 45 in a 50. Tragic really. I know there will be a day of reckoning but I’ve got to the point where I pretty much ignore all limits and ride as I see fit.
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.09. 2015 09:35
last decade has seen road deaths reduce by around a third I believe, you can't get around the fact we on motorcycles are  more vulnerable than in a car and the figures unfortunately back this up.
You can grump all you wasn't regarding powers to be and revenue, fact is if we did not need Police , Ambulance and fire service and Hospital services to deal with traffic  the government would rolling in it, deficit reduced ( I doubt the last bit, regardless of what DC and GO tell you the deficit is going up not down)
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Topdad on 01.09. 2015 12:09
The problems been there along time re speed limits , those who have seen any road safety films from Horsmans and other companies, dating back to the 50's -60's , someone mentioned them a few months ago ,see many clips that irk and we can still relate to now ,how often do you have some idiot who goes past you on a bend at 60-70 when you know it's a dodgy road anyway  only to catch up to the same idiot on a stretch of perfectly good safe 40mph and  he's doing 30. No sense nor reason ,tend to do what cb does  and ride at my interpretation of a safe speed ,unless mr plod is about ! My personal hate is kids sitting on my cars rear bumber when they haven't a chance to get past safely , can't help smiling at the reaction when I tap the brake pedal gently . Bob
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: muskrat on 01.09. 2015 12:22
can't help smiling at the reaction when I tap the brake pedal gently . Bob
i do that too, but as I boot'er back a gear and giver the berries.
I believe everyone should be tested every 5 years. I'd be at the head of the line.
Cheers
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.09. 2015 15:53
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can't help smiling at the reaction when I tap the brake pedal gently . Bob

Thanks guys I was thinking it was just me did that, it is one of my hates and sadly some HGV guys do it too

Quote
I believe everyone should be tested every 5 years.

You have to apply every five years (or is it ten) for your licence once over 70 in UK  but it doesn't involve a test which I agree would be sensible but cost I suppose come into it these days
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Greybeard on 01.09. 2015 16:31
I believe everyone should be tested every 5 years. I'd be at the head of the line.
I totally agree with you. I passed my car test when I was 17, I'm now 65. It's ridiculous that I'm allowed to drive/ride without any assessment of my abilities or knowledge of the latest rules, (sometimes on a sixty year old motorcycle that doesn't have to have a road-worthiness inspection; madness!). Actually, I appear to be more aware of/likely to obey the rules than most younger drivers; for instance I still actually use my indicators in the car and hand signals when on two wheels.

I don't remember if I've said this here before, but why is it that the more expensive the car the less chance it will have indicators fitted? I believe that BMW's don't have them as standard; they must be very expensive cos most Beemer drivers don't bother with them.
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Topdad on 01.09. 2015 16:52
Most Bmw drivers think that the indicators  are only fitted seal the corners of there cars and don't get me going about bloody Range rovers ,Bob
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.09. 2015 17:50
yep, at our U3A meeting we had a talk from a guy (ex police I assume from mannerisms) who was along from the Advanced drivers institute (is that correct), he asked a few questions after, I was chuffed at being the only one to get a few correct, anyway he asserted what my old driving instructor (way back then) taught me - indicators are "direction" indicators not right of way indicators and should be used as such, to warn drivers what you are about to do, further to that he stated if you are alone on the road (unlikely theses days) then why use them.
We had an email from the U3A organiser a few days later to say he was so pleased with our reaction to his talk he's offered to come up in a few months with colleagues and take any of us who want to on assessment runs, sounds like fun I might go along.

at last I can shut up the missus when she accuses me of overuse of the indicaors  *smile*
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Greybeard on 01.09. 2015 21:13
Indicators...further to that he stated if you are alone on the road (unlikely theses days) then why use them.

I've heard this before and strongly disagree. What about pedestrians who need to know which way you are going? What about that car that's nosing out of their driveway and you have not seen it yet? What about your blind spots? etc etc. Also, if you give people an inch they will think it's OK to take a mile, and never signal; better to always indicate, (in my opinion).
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 01.09. 2015 22:08
Yes he was talking about night driving to be fair when he stated that, I agree with you for a different reason tho, it's a question of getting/keeping good habit or practise, it comes without out thinking to me and I 'd like to keep it that way even if it's superfluous
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Triton Thrasher on 01.09. 2015 22:21
It's not as if signalling costs anything.
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Topdad on 02.09. 2015 10:37
That's very true TT and I always use the indicators in the car but back when I was  17 I took an advanced driving course at the instruction of our MD E Lambert ,at Horsman 's ,He was also chair of the Liverpool and Wirral road safety thingy and also heavily involved in setting up tests for driving instructors .Crafty old sod  he also got a hefty reduction in the block insurance for the company if everyone attended and passed . It was impressive and included use of the police skid pan  ( great fun ) the lessons learned there alone stay with me even now ,the night driving part was a great experience to. Most importantly the instructors,mostly ex police ,made you think ahead  and be "aware" of them ,they  taught that your vehicles position on the road should be enough, without indicators, to make other road users know or have a fair idea what you intended ( that was also in the police drivers handbook which back then was "roadcraft " if memory serves) Of course that was in 1967 traffics increased, drivers have dumbed down but a lot of that info  is still retained ,is still pertinent today and as served me well.Bob
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: morris on 02.09. 2015 18:48
This discussion makes me wonder if legislation in the UK is the same as over here regarding indicators and other stuff that wasn't obligatory at the time a vehicle was first put on the road.
The only thing we ever needed to retrofit where fog lights on cars.
Wish it where the same regarding road speeds...  *smile*
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: sparx on 02.09. 2015 21:10
This discussion makes me wonder if legislation in the UK is the same as over here regarding indicators and other stuff that wasn't obligatory at the time a vehicle was first put on the road.
The only thing we ever needed to retrofit where fog lights on cars.

The only thing that comes to mind that we've had to retrofit in the UK is windscreen washers on cars that don't have a fold down screen or one you can see round/over.
If a car was made before even seatbelts became compulsory fitment you don't have to fit them, but if they are fitted you have to wear them.
I have a Daimler that was made before rear fog lights became mandatory, I don't have to fit them, and I'm not going to because the car would no longer be "as original", but I think I would be on dodgy ground if I was out on a foggy day and someone punted me up the **** (rear).

The down-side to no longer having to do hand signals to pass a car driving test is that if you signal on a bike that you are "slowing down or stopping" the majority of car drivers would assume you have cramp in your arm and are exercising it a little to get the blood flowing.

My pet hate, apart from tail-gating, is cars hammering round roundabouts as if they were racing round Nurbergring. You can't get onto the roundabout unless you do a Formula One start, and it's the main reason why we've ended up with a lot of the larger roundabouts having traffic lights on them. I'd rather have a mandatory 30mph speed limit on all roundabouts than have to sit and wait at a set of lights.
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: muskrat on 03.09. 2015 09:32
Poor buggas. I didn't even need a brake light as it was an optional extra in 1951 *lol*.
Cheers
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: Butch (cb) on 03.09. 2015 11:02

If a car was made before even seatbelts became compulsory fitment you don't have to fit them, but if they are fitted you have to wear them.


Yeah - so why do I have to wear a helmet on a pre 1973 bike?
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: bsa-bill on 03.09. 2015 18:08
Quote
Yeah - so why do I have to wear a helmet on a pre 1973 bike?

It's so that those who don't wear helmets don't damage the road surface when there heads make contact with it  ;)
Title: Re: UK road speeds
Post by: morris on 03.09. 2015 21:11
It's so that those who don't wear helmets don't damage the road surface when there heads make contact with it  ;)
Always thought bikers where a hard headed bunch though...?