The BSA A7-A10 Forum

Technical (Descriptive Topic Titles - Stay on Topic) => A7 & A10 Engine => Topic started by: morris on 21.09. 2015 23:03

Title: Dodgy parts
Post by: morris on 21.09. 2015 23:03
Ticked the 500 mile since rebuild box on the plunger so thought it was about time to retorque the head.
When taking the rocker box off, to my horror I found the valve stems badly damaged by the adjusters. Paid £60 for 4 new stainless steel valves and they're already good for nothing but the scrap bin *bash* *problem*
They came from a reputable dealer together with the adjusters. Seems the stems are to soft? Or the adjusters to hard? Or something else I overlooked?
If anyone can recommend a good source for a new set of valves, I'll be happy to hear.

Also recently ordered some different size main jets for the carb at another reputable dealer.
They came in a non marked bag and the jets were stamped W****l *pull hair out*
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Greybeard on 21.09. 2015 23:11
I hope you are going to chase a refund
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: morris on 21.09. 2015 23:16
I hope you are going to chase a refund
Will give that a try. You never know...
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Greybeard on 21.09. 2015 23:25
If the valves and rocker adjusters came from the same seller I can't see how they could argue about it.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: duTch on 21.09. 2015 23:38

 I had that happen to mine a long time back, and there was a guy with a workshop across the way from guys I knew, and he tipped them with either stellite or boronium- but can't remember if they're the ones I'm currently using *conf*, but maybe worth checking into.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: kiwipom on 22.09. 2015 05:48
hi guys, Morris is it possible to get steel caps for them? cheers
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: duTch on 22.09. 2015 07:15

 
Quote
is it possible to get steel caps for them

 You mean like on old single cylinder Lister stationary engines CS-3/6...??
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: beezermacc on 22.09. 2015 08:49
The steel caps are called 'lash caps' and they used them on A7LS. I've never had any problems with the valves I sell and I always refund on the rare occasions customers are unhappy. I have Wassell main jets in a couple of my bikes. When I've been trying to alter the main jet mixture ratio I find that the Wassell main jets function the way you would expect, i.e. fitting a bigger jet than the original Amal makes the mixture richer etc.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Klaus on 22.09. 2015 12:50
I trust in German engeenering an use this tappet adjuster as shown in the picture.
The power that get to valvlestem is a distributed force.
The `lashcap`is build as a bolw bounded in a ball. All the moving from the rockers are eliminated in this item.
No vertical forces at the valve guides.

It`s hard for me to explain, but I think you`ll understand.


cheers Klaus
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Greybeard on 22.09. 2015 12:52
That looks clever. Where do you get them?
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Klaus on 22.09. 2015 13:15
That looks clever. Where do you get them?


It`s Mercedes Benz Partnumber A102 050 02 20  ask at a MB Dealer and order the nuts also

The thread is M 8 x1 but similar to  the britsh cycle thread, but it  `s easyer to fit with a metrish recut.

If the valve stem is damaged you can grind or cut  it shorter, so you have more clearence to tune.


Cheers Klaus
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: RichardL on 22.09. 2015 13:46
Like the part. Not crazy about modifying the rockers.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: edboy on 22.09. 2015 20:55
klaus is showing off his elephant foot adjuster . triple owners use the porshe variety [expensive]also with lashcaps. another option is mushroom headed adjusters with lashcaps which i use on my triple without problems.i believe, but not possitive, the pre unit triumph used the same valve adjuster thread as the a10 but you will have to remove the rocker box to fit them.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Rocket Racer on 23.09. 2015 00:53
My beesa triple runs lash caps and mushroom tappets, the triples rev far beyond any twin and the triples rocker geometry is very hard on the valves.
its not uncommon for singles or twins valves to burr at the top and need a light file to remove from the guide without damaging it.
Not that they should spread or mark under low mileages.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: morris on 23.09. 2015 21:05
Thanks lads. Gives me a lot to think about
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: duTch on 23.09. 2015 22:20
 
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The steel caps are called 'lash caps'

 That's the term I had in mind (didn't)... *smile*

 That looks like a handy piece of kit Klaus... *wink2* ..but also
Quote
Like the part. Not crazy about modifying the rockers.

...Also gives extra tappets in the cups and balls... *fight*
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: RichardL on 24.09. 2015 00:08
...Also gives extra tappets in the cups and balls... *fight*

Is that something to look forward to? *whistle*

Richard L.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Rocket Racer on 24.09. 2015 00:31
or that given BSA used almost every thread form known to mankind is the rethreading of parts to metric forms  a natural progression or heresy?  *eek*

I'd err towards burn the heretic  *whistle*

Just as well we're a diverse bunch  *wink2*
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: duTch on 24.09. 2015 04:32

 
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I'd err towards burn the heretic  *whistle*
.....hhmmm *conf*

 I kinda like the idea of roller rockers...but that's not why I'm here; No work today, so figured I'd check the clearances- in@0.009 /ex0.012 might close the ex to 11...but that's also not why I'm here...

  While doing this check I remembered that the way to do the clearances on my '69 Daytona was to close the adjuster in to zero clearance, and then wind it out something like a quarter turn, to give whatever it should be maybe ~7-8 thou *dunno2* ...sounded a fairly dodgy at the time, but have since figured that depending on the thread pitch (maybe 1/4bsf on that?), seems logical, so I've applied that logic to the A10 and wasted time over a cold tongue lube :P, and created a tool which I'll paste later........but that's also not why I'm here....

       I had a thought, and another look at Morris's photo, and going by the shape of the indents it kinda looks like maybe the rocker geometry could be a bit wrong, maybe the pushrods are too short/long, (could be a consequence of gasket thickness?) and also maybe the thackery/shims are a bit flaccid...
  I asked about rocker geometry awhile ago, but can't remember any outcome..??
 
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: Rocket Racer on 24.09. 2015 06:31

       I had a thought, and another look at Morris's photo, and going by the shape of the indents it kinda looks like maybe the rocker geometry could be a bit wrong, maybe the pushrods are too short/long, (could be a consequence of gasket thickness?) and also maybe the thackery/shims are a bit flaccid...
  I asked about rocker geometry awhile ago, but can't remember any outcome..??
 

A mate sketched these notes up for me for checking my a75, which is slightly different but are very sensitive to rocker geometry for valve wear (typically stems and guides) , but the intention was that at half lift the tappet should be in line (at 90 deg) with the valve stem. Not sure how to best articulate this.
With the A10's and A7's having various cam lift and some with after market pushrods or skimmed heads or differing gaskets its quite likely mainly are not quite optimal
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: duTch on 24.09. 2015 09:20

 I'll look at the pics later, but;
Quote
at half lift the tappet should be in line (at 90 deg) with the valve stem. Not sure how to best articulate this.
  It's the same principle as brake/clutch cable geometry...??

Quote
With the A10's and A7's having various cam lift and some with after market pushrods or skimmed heads or differing gaskets its quite
Quote
likely mainly are not quite optima
l
Yep I'm inclined to degree to agree-  *whistle*(sorry-just had a play on words there).....but also I think you mean
Quote
likely many are not quite optima
..?
    It kind've makes sense that if there's a bit more lift involved, geometry will change some- depending maybe on the base radius *????*
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: morris on 23.10. 2015 21:57
A little update. I think the adjusters where to pointy and to hard as well. Tried to give one of them a couple of file strokes but that didn't even make a scratch on the surface. Don't understand why they have to be that hard. After all, they're a lot easier to replace than a valve.
I have ordered a set of adjusters at another supplier (bottom of the picture). They have a much flatter surface and are softer to.
The valve train seems to be a lot less noisy now. Gonna run it for a while like that and see what it does.

hi guys, Morris is it possible to get steel caps for them? cheers

Yep. B31 valve caps fit. I ordered a set but decided not to install them for the moment
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: edboy on 24.10. 2015 17:56
hi morris, do you mean b31 lash caps fit the a10 valve. if thats a yes i may use them with mushroom adjusters myself on my next project.
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: morris on 24.10. 2015 21:48
hi morris, do you mean b31 lash caps fit the a10 valve. if thats a yes i may use them with mushroom adjusters myself on my next project.

Yes, tried them on and they fit. B31 stems have exactly the same diameter as A10's
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: muskrat on 25.10. 2015 09:46
The problem with fitting lash caps to valves not designed for them is the added length to the stem and the geometry to the rocker.
Cheers
Title: Re: Dodgy parts
Post by: edboy on 25.10. 2015 17:08
yes muskrat your right but there might be space to grind down the valve stem, use slightly shorter pushrods or even worn cam followers would compensate.no harm in experimenting if you like fiddling.