Author Topic: Oil tank is nearly empty and I found the oil in the sump  (Read 3745 times)

Offline Heiko

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So,

Still running since today. Thanks for your help. The engine runs very smooth.

But after running about 10 minutes it started to smoke, the oil tank is nearly empty and I found the oil in the sump.

The pump is still working because you can see that the oil is pumped back in the tank. But I am not shure if the quantity is sufficient.

Maybe something is blocked or the pump has a problem. Any ideas? I am sure you will have a lot.  *smiley4*


Heiko

Adm edit: post split from 'Introductions', moved to tech board, title edited to reflect content.

Offline sean

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So,

Still running since today. Thanks for your help. The engine runs very smooth.

But after running about 10 minutes it started to smoke, the oil tank is nearly empty and I found the oil in the sump.

The pump is still working because you can see that the oil is pumped back in the tank. But I am not shure if the quantity is sufficient.

Maybe something is blocked or the pump has a problem. Any ideas? I am sure you will have a lot.  *smiley4*


Heiko

Adm edit: post split from 'Introductions', moved to tech board, title edited to reflect content.

Check cork behind timing cover for breather

Online berger

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if things are working as they should the oil should not have a continuous flow back to the tank it should have air in it i have clear tubing on my return feed and to the rocker box and can see air gaps in both tubes. you need to investigate the cork that has been mentioned and i would have the pump off and get some compressed air blown into things , also up from the scavenge pipe , i would have the pump in pieces making sure the gears go back on the same shafts , the worst case is a fracture in the scavenge tube inside the engine.

Online berger

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far too many variables for this problem - collapsed oil hoses is one that is scarcely looked into.

Offline Swarfcut

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 A poor return to the tank is the problem....simple. The actual cause will also be simple, but finding it won't be.

 The return or "scavenge" system is separate from the pressure "feed" system. This confuses people because both go through the same oil pump, though the flow and return are completely apart.

 If the tank is emptying the pump must be working, so the question is "Why does the oil not return? Plenty on the Forum already, so first easy check is the filter gauze in the sump (which needs to be the right size mesh, clean and undamaged to do its job) along with the little ball valve you can see, make sure the ball is not stuck and the housing is not gummed up with carbon. This is common on bikes that have been left standing. The ball should be free to lift a couple of mm and return when released. Give the valve a good spray of carb cleaner.

  Well worth taking off the oil tank and giving it a good clean out, check the return pipe in the tank, any blockage will send more oil to the engine in a continuous loop via the rocker feed, and this results in an ever increasing volume of oil in the sump which the pump is never able to clear back to the tank.   With a sump full of oil the return should be a good steady stream at anything above idle engine speed.

 A fracture of the pick up pipe in the sump, or a poor seal of this pipe to the crankcase will give an air leak and cause this problem, as will a loose oil pump with a leaky gasket.

 Try the easy stuff first. Then have a look at this link, you will see it's a common problem.

  https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=14612.msg121892#msg121892

  Swarfy


 
 

Offline Heiko

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Good morning,

many thanks for your advice. Will sort it out step by step and let you know.


Heiko

Offline Heiko

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Good morning,

nothing is blocked also the scavenge tube is still okay.

BUT… The cork behind the breather is missing!  *conf*

I still do not find the thickness the cork must have in the documents behind the breather to eleminate the play of it?! Any thoughts?

Many thanks,

Heiko

Offline Swarfcut

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 Cheat's method.....Purists and precision engineers look away now.

 Push the cam gear towards the drive side,  grease the faces of the cam gear and breathe bush, then a dab of body filler on the gear. Assemble the inner timing cover with the breather bush pulled out against the inner cover.

  This will squeeze the bodyfiller into the gap between the two. Leave the filler to harden, then it all comes apart with something solid to measure as a starting point for the thickness of the cork washer. This trick works well for other dimensions that are not easy to measure.

 Plasticine was used in the past, but that's like measuring a jelly. The breather corks come in several thicknesses. The cork should be lightly compressed when all is fitted. Too thick means a lot of friction and heavy wear to the timing cover face and breather  bush.

  If a new cork fixes the original problem, I can't believe that something so simple can cause such chaos. It must be something to do with the internal crankcase pressures and how they differ with, and without, the cork. Defies all logic?

 Swarfy.

 Additional. Do not be alarmed if the timing marks do not line up. The idler gear teeth are not a simple ratio to the crank and cam gear, so several turns of the crank are required to get back to the starting point. Easy to reset or check with the cover off. Don't forget a small fibre washer to go under the pump nose, this matches the pump gasket thickness. Without it the pump will twist and bind when tightened down.



Offline Heiko

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Have chosen another way:

Used the end of a caliper and measured the distance… good that a disc of the correct thickness was available in the parts collection.

Checked the timing and turned the engine by hand. Seems to work well.

I think that without the cork washer the pressure in the engine is not built up at the right moment and therefore the excess pressure remains in the engine, which causes the piston to start pumping oil.

Heiko

Offline Heiko

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Update:

Seems to work now.

The cork washer hold the breather in place so that the holes of the timing cover and breather match. If it is missing the breather can slide and blocks the holes in the cover.


Heiko

Offline Heiko

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Re: Oil tank is nearly empty and I found the oil in the sump
« Reply #10 on: 26.05. 2025 19:11 »
Problem solved... The oil now stays where it belongs and engine smokes very minimally. Blame it on the piston rings, which haven't been run in yet.

Next step in the workshop:

Battery not charging: Disconnected the alternator and measured the voltage at the alternator: voltage is rising. So, the regulator. Test it tomorrow.

Rocker box gaskets leaking... Oil is dripping onto the hot cylinder head ...tomorrow too.

Offline Jules

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Re: Oil tank is nearly empty and I found the oil in the sump
« Reply #11 on: 27.05. 2025 07:23 »
wow, thats quite amazing I reckon, an empty oil tank in just 10 mins running due to the breather control n/w  *eek*, admittedly its probably got a fair bit of blowby with the new rings etc, but gee....... *conf*