Gas welding

[Brian]

Quite a few have acetylene/oxygen welding sets including me. The thing is the rental on the cylinders is getting ridicously expensive but you can now buy LPG/oxygen sets.

My question being does anyone have one of these LPG/oxygen sets and what do you think of it ?

My use is brazing and fusion welding of mild steel up to about 2mm thickness.

[bsa-bill]

many years ago the farm changed from acetylene/oxygen to another gas/oxygen (sorry memory) worked OK if you could get it to light, difficult indoors almost impossible outside, eventually went back to  the old carbide

[BSA_54A10]

Keep your eyes out for a Henrob torch.
I have been using one for years.
Runs @ 4psi gas pressure and as you would imagine, uses almost no gas.
Standard kit comes with an air /acetylene head and you can buy a propane/ air or propane /oxy head as well.
You should also be able to buy your own bottles.
The aluminium Oxy ones will set you back about £ 200 and an acetylene will be around £ 300.
The only catch is that you have to take your own bottles to the refilling plant to get then refilled, not the exchange depot for an exchange.

[MG]

Brian,

afaik LPG (propane and butane)/oxy kits are suitable for cutting and brazing only, not for welding!
The flame temperature and energy content are lower than with acetylene, and, which is the real problem, the LPG flame has oxidizing characteristics, so is not suitable for joint welding ferrous material without the presence of a fluxing agent.
But it might still be a good (and cheap) alternative to acetylene for brazing and heating parts.

Cheers, Markus

[Brian]

I've been asking everyone I know and getting mixed info on just how good or bad the LPG/Oxy sets are. Looks like I am going to have to stick with the Acytlene/Oxy for now.

I'm also looking at a MIG, I havent bought one in the past for the same reason, cyl rental costs. You can now buy ones that have a disposable cylinder which makes it a lot more financially viable. I have been looking around and as usual there are hundreds of different makes in a huge range of amperages so I just have to work out which one will do what I want.

Buying welding equipment is hard, its impossible to find retail outlets with anyone there that actually uses the stuff they sell.

[sinbad]

Hi Brian,regarding the Mig I use fluxed welding wire, ie no gas.

[Brian]

This is where it gets hard, I asked around and everyone says the gasless ones work ok but gas is better especially if you are dealing with old metal.

I am going to have to try and find someone who actually works in an engineering shop and uses these different types of equipment. I have been to most of the retail outlets and there are lots of different brands but none of the sales people actually use them.

I am after a mig that will weld tinware well, I have a stick welder that I will still use for structural type welding. Its been a long time since I used a mig (30 years) so I will have to learn again.

[BSA_54A10]

When old man Dillion ( he went broke trying to sell his kit and sold out to Henrob ) was trying to get his gear off the ground he used to come around to plants and do demos.
The one that always killed me was when he welded old aluminium cans toether.
The to prove a point he would cut 3 strips off a steel beer can and weld them into an I beam.
After which he welded a lump of real I beam.
I can usually weld mudguards & headlamp shells good enough to be filled back & with minimal fill be painted over.
Like most things that require you using your hands, it comes down to skills and skills are directly proportional to practice.

[Brian]

I've seen the Henrob advertised but once again dont know anyone who has one to go and check it out.

Trevor does it simply replace the standard handpiece or do you need different fittings etc.

[andy2565]

this is an excellant website if you want to teach yourself mig welding,http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/,and it gives tips on how you can upgrade your mig,i use the small portapack brazing kit as i cant justify the rental costs of the oxy/acet bottles  
   and i use pub gas for my mig,it spits a bit but good enough on thin steel,i get it from the bloke mext door ,who's a fitter for guiness,one bottle has lasted for ages now.
  the website gives good reviews on equipment from people that have used them,dont know if this applys to downunder,i was contemplating buying a small tig,but learning something else,having not mastered mig yet seemed a waste of money.and then theres alloy welding !!!!

[BSA_54A10]

It is just a gun and set of nozels that actually mix the gasses properly so can run @ 4psi.
Because you are running at such low gas flow you need to put in flash back arrestors unless you like riding with your eyes closed. Good thing is there are only 5 tips which go from tin cans to railway lines, so one tip is all I ever use ( Size 0 )
The original kit was subject to a patient claim from CIG (BOC to some ) so he had to change the shape of the gun to a pistol grip which takes a bit of getting used to.
Every one who I have loaned mine to has bought one.
Really good for alloy because of the short flame and stainless is a doddle.
The trouble is that it uses about 20% of the gas that a conventional oxy kit uses.
In Australia CIG had a monopoly on gas supply and a near monopoly on welding gear retail. They would not stock his kit and pressured other retailers not to carry it either.
Whenever he got a reasonable sized company to take them up, the gas suppliers came in with sweet heart deals ( like no bottle rental ) so eventually tried his luck in the USA where he ran into similar distribution problems and got stuck with US product liability insurance so he sold out to "American Welding Technology" and they sold the local franchise to Henrob.
Once you have used one you will never be able to go back to a standard torch again.

[bonny]

these gas suppliers are in league with the devil it seems , i bought a little miller tig welding plant a year or so back and the best people to get the argon from were boc so everyone said , the money they charge for even a small bottle of argon is a scandal, and the rental for the bottle ditto , the only alternative is air products and they are even worse to deal with so i am told .
if you can afford it tig in my opinion is the way to go , but i am biased because i have been weld with the tig process at work for years , parweld do a ac/dc tig set thats really good value and with the ac you have the ability to weld aluminium , and its a nice clean process compared with any other i have used  and no messing about with fluxes , the last time i gas welded aluminium i didn't wash the casting and it corroded and broke because of the flux .

[wilko]

Yes the whole bottle renting scam is outrageous down here, who can we complain to though?

[Brian]

The ridiculous cost of cylinder rental is what started me on this whole thing. I have what we call "colt" size bottles, I think they are D size, about two foot tall and six inches in diameter. They cost AUS $150 each to rent per year, and then you have the cost of the gas on top of that. The companies will not sell cylinders, they only rent them.

Its looking like the LPG/Oxy is not a viable alternative, by what I can find out its fine for heating and brazing but not so good for fusion welding.

The MIG is looking better, they are available with disposable gas cylinders and I have found a person who has one and is very happy with it so I think I will go that way with a MIG.


Looks like I am stuck with renting cylinders as far as a Oxy set goes, I am going to look into the Henrob torch however.

[bonny]

i did see this , i don't know if it can be used for welding , but it sure can cut steel . http://www.petrogen.com/