Author Topic: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve  (Read 3052 times)

Offline agonda1

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oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« on: 03.12. 2015 20:12 »
Have fitted anti- sump valve to feed line,this has not cured wet sumping ( Iknow they have to be clinically clean to be work )
Considering replacing with simple on/off 8mm petrol tap.Apart from the obvious ' what if I forget to turn it on ' is there anything wrong with this set up

jim

Offline duTch

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #1 on: 03.12. 2015 20:42 »

 *problem*...there's been plenty of discussion on this; all I'll say is that I often forget to turn the fuel on, so can't be trusted to remember that as well...
 I erroneously used socket cap screws to fit my oil pump, and the last two occasions I've been inside there (last a couple of weeks ago to fit the new oil pump), I found the screws had loosened off so I reckon would allow some bleed down, and bad feed pressure....so anyone who has done this, I suggest they be replaced with proper studs, or at least check them regularly, and wire them up as I did until I get new studs
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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #2 on: 03.12. 2015 20:44 »
Apart from the obvious ' what if I forget to turn it on ' is there anything wrong with this set up

jim

Is that not enough?

Online morris

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #3 on: 03.12. 2015 21:08 »
Recipe for disaster I'd say...
Are you sure it's real wet sumping? There's always about a good cupfull of oil in the sump.
When I leave mine alone for a week or two (which rarely happens) I even get about two cupfulls out of the sump but never had any problem with it.
It only gets nasty when you notice your boots are filling up with oil on the first start up after a long standstill. Though it really needs a lot of oil in the sump before doing that.
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Offline Duncan R

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #4 on: 04.12. 2015 10:06 »
Cheap and easy solution - Fit an alloy sump plate with a drain bolt on it. Drain excess oil into a clean container, refit sump plug and put the drained oil back in the oil tank. Takes less than 5 mins. No dodgy valves or taps that you forget turn on
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Offline duTch

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #5 on: 04.12. 2015 10:48 »

 The other thing I didn't say is, you probably won't get much sympathy if you do it and it goes wrong- sorry. *smile*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline worntorn

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #6 on: 07.12. 2015 20:46 »
Probably the only thing scarier than an automatic valve (spring and ball) in the feed line is a manual valve without a fail-safe. Most of us would eventually forget to turn it on at some point.
The auto ones seem to destroy a lot of engines as well.
Even so, I did put a manual valve with a failsafe on one of my bikes. It is an all new engine and pump but the pump does a steady drip.......drip at a rate of about 10 drops per minute. This equates to a full sump in a few days, so it was beyond annoying.
The failsafe is the igniton key. The valve can only be operated with the ignition key and when the oil is turned off the key cannot be removed from the valve. I only have one active key for the bike, plus an inactive key that is taped on in a hidden location. The hidden key is for use in the event that I am out on the bike somewhere and lose the regular key. In this case the oil is on anyway.
I've racked my brain to come up with a way that this system could fail and haven't come up with anything. Been using it for a couple of years now.
Definitely solved the wetsumping and also the associated leakage from a full sump.

Glen

Online chaterlea25

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #7 on: 07.12. 2015 22:14 »
Hi Glen,
Quote
I've racked my brain to come up with a way that this system could fail and haven't come up with anything.

Hotwiring ignition ??  *problem* *warn* *angry*

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Online WozzA

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #8 on: 07.12. 2015 23:00 »
a simple on / off valve with a 12" arm that fouled the kick start when closed would work..  *eek* *whistle*
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Offline terryg

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #9 on: 07.12. 2015 23:04 »
Maybe you're right Wozza but sure to lose a few points when the bike is marked at the next concours d'elegance.
Terry
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Offline Topdad

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #10 on: 08.12. 2015 11:20 »
My tuppence worth, I fitted a inline valve which appeared to work fine that is until one day I started up checked the return flow and there was nothing coming back   *????* . A quick check of the pump proved that was turning ok ,then checked the valve the bloody ball had jammed closed and took a real belt with a punch to shift it . I simply removed the ball and spring etc and used the body as a connector ,oil return back to normal , so I'd forget that idea and go for the alloy sump and drain plug, cheers Bob
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Offline stu.andrews

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #11 on: 08.12. 2015 16:15 »
SRM Sump plate with a drain bolt-the ONLY safe way!
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Offline Viking

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #12 on: 08.12. 2015 20:31 »
Get a manufacture new oil pump from SRM in Wales, this stop the problem.

My A10 SR can stand unused for 6 mounths without draining oil to the sump.

That is a  proof solution :-)

Offline worntorn

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #13 on: 08.12. 2015 23:06 »
Hi Glen,
Quote
I've racked my brain to come up with a way that this system could fail and haven't come up with anything.

Hotwiring ignition ??  *problem* *warn* *angry*

John

Maybe I worded that wrong. What I meant was, before I installed this valve on a ridiculously expensive Vincent engine, I made sure there was no way it could fail. I'm still satisfied that this is the case. The key in valve idea works.

There are at least two manufacturers making oil shut offs with ignition cut out interlock switches as part of the valve. These I would put in the category of quite safe, but still subject to failure should the switch fail to do it's job.
Would probably stick to the drain and fill plan rather then take a chance with one of these.
The riskiest of all has to be the "auto" type when used on the feed side . Not sure why these are even built.

Fortunately, my new to me A10 must have had some work done, because it doesn't wet sump at all. The bike has been sitting for two months now and the tank is still full.

Glen

Offline shuswapkev

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Re: oil feed on/off tap v anti-sump valve
« Reply #14 on: 09.12. 2015 10:05 »

  I converted my 1950  A10 to the A65 style valve... for that you should split the cases...
 and it can stand for about 2 weeks...
I have the alloy sump plate with drain plug...and use that...also drilled the drain bolt and put a rare earth magnet in..