Author Topic: Glitter  (Read 1485 times)

Online Alex kettle

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Glitter
« on: 30.04. 2016 07:58 »
I'm not a fan of glitter at the best of times and I know it's much much worse when I find it sitting in the bottom of the sump *sad2*( pics hopefully below)  Here's a quick bit of background info. Got my 1960 a10 from my dad as it was sat in his garage doing nothing for last 20 years. Has 2000 on the clock from when my old man rebuilt it.  Got it up and running with some help off here over a year ago rode it 7 miles down the road, around the field all day at a wedding giving pillion rides and back home and all seamed in fine form and didn't miss a beat.  Started it up a few times on idle in the garage as the sound is just too much to resist then a few months later decided I would get round to take it for a mot.  All started off ok then about halfway there got some smoke out the exhausts and by the time I was at the mot station oil was all over the back end  .  By fluke of a chance he had some sae40 so topped up the oil tank up after a pass and had a slow ride home where I put it away a burried my head in the sand. Decided the other day to bite the bullet and take a look, and discoved this. So it's engine out time and full strip down. Never seen the internals before so it's a steep learning curve from here. Just hope there's not too much damage inside. Thought I would share my pain in the hope it makes me feel better . ( couple of pics bad times and good times)
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #1 on: 11.07. 2016 09:58 »
Looks brassy so could be from timing side bush. How is the crank endfloat?
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Online RichardL

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #2 on: 11.07. 2016 13:47 »
GB's question may be a bit of the cart-before-the horse, since you haven't had an A10 engine apart before. First, we might establish if you know what's meant by "crank endfloat". If not, it's the amount of side-to-side play of the craankshaft within the crankcase as controlled by shims located between the main bearing and the crankshaft body (or, "web"). Knowing this value can go a ways to deciding if the engine must come apart, but it's not the only factor.

Before steering you to a link about how to check endfloat, I am curious if there is not a larger bit submerged in the pool of oil you're showing in the sump. It looks as if there is. Then, could you post a picture of all the bits dried out and shown on a clean surface? This might just be delaying the inevitable, but if your intested in more opinions before undertaking disassembly, this would help.

I have to locate the endfloat link after posting this, so, back in a few.

Richard L.
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Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Online RichardL

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #3 on: 11.07. 2016 14:09 »
Here is a link to instructions on checking crank endfloat with the engine in the bike. This was originally posted when I asked how it could be done.

Richard L.

http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=10679.msg81058#msg81058
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Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Offline Topdad

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #4 on: 11.07. 2016 15:46 »
so before the ride just how long had the bike been standing , if it was a few weeks the oil thrown out could simply be the engine wet sumping  and under the ride blew a lot of the oil out that could also cause the smoking from the pipes , so then it's just a question of rechecking where the hell those bits came from and as Richard says confirming if any bigger bits .Normally being a cautious man  , in more ways than one, I'd be with the pull it out and get on brigade but you mentioned a rebuild and since not much running since could those fine bits simply be the crap from a new motor, obviously if bigger debris ignore all my ramblings ,don't pick up £ 200 or go to jail simply take notice of the other esteemed members ideas.
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" rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools"
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Online RichardL

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #5 on: 11.07. 2016 16:24 »
Poshman,

Just went back and read several of your previous posts. You've clearly done a lot of thinking and work on this bike, so I guess endfloat and wet sumping are not mysteries.

Richard L.
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Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Offline worntorn

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #6 on: 11.07. 2016 19:50 »
Poshman, is the collection of metallic particles just from the bit of riding you describe, maybe 30 miles or so, or does the oil predate this?

Glen
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Offline coater87

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #7 on: 11.07. 2016 23:42 »
Poshman, is the collection of metallic particles just from the bit of riding you describe, maybe 30 miles or so, or does the oil predate this?

Glen

 Thats the perfect question. With only 2000 miles on the bike, the oil may not have been changed since the rebuild. The first start of a rebuilt motor, everything is wearing in together. Basically small amounts of metal are removed here and there as parts begin to mate.

 Is it possible thats the original oil from 20 years ago? If so, I would change it, clean the oil tank and sump really well while at it. Ride it for 20-50 miles and pull the sump again and have a fresh look. If its clean, OK.

 If you had just changed the oil and are sure the sump was cleaned not long ago, I would start digging deeper.

 Lee
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Offline Joolstacho

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #8 on: 15.07. 2016 08:23 »
"All that glitters is not gold..." (That's what I keep telling Mary...)
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Online Alex kettle

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #9 on: 29.10. 2016 21:06 »
Thanks to you all for replying to my post and sorry for not getting back to you all. I have stripped the engine down on my dad's dining room table in his conservatory and found that the camshaft and followers were the cause of the metal particles floating around in my sump.  I have bought many new parts now from Andrew at priory magnetos who is great and have invested in a new srm oil pump. I am just in need of some spare time now to put the whole thing back together. According to my dad the camshaft had be reprofiled many years ago by piper cams.  One thing I was thinking about for a possible cause of failure is that I left the petrol taps open after a ride once and maybe the engine got flooded out with petrol which has then thinned the oil?
Best thing I can do now is make sure it goes back together as it should, sort the float out in the carb and don't forget to turn the petrol taps off.
Thanks again to you all
Alex
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Offline Tomcat

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #10 on: 29.10. 2016 22:28 »
G'day mr Poshman, is it possible that the camshaft was left unused and rust has formed on it?  (doing nothing for the last 20 years)  After you have got it going again the rust and hardening have gone through the engine and caught up in the screen?  You have dismantled the engine, which is the smart way of dealing with these issues. Be sure to clean out the sludge trap (A7A10 forum broken record) *smile*
Cheers TC
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Online orabanda

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #11 on: 29.10. 2016 23:41 »
Could also be an oil supply issue (not enough flow, lack of pressure), or using oil without zinc content (high rubbing loads between the camshaft lobes, and the followers).
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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #12 on: 30.10. 2016 08:52 »
"Reprofiled cams" is suspicious.

Certainly an opportunity for a metallurgy problem.
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #13 on: 30.10. 2016 09:44 »
"Reprofiled cams" is suspicious.
I put a reprofiled camshaft in my engine. After three years I've had no problems but I do worry about it. I bought a new cam from Andrew Guttman but haven't yet fitted it. Maybe I'll strip the engine over winter, fit the cam and give everything a full inspection. I stupidly forgot to change the gearbox seal when I changed the sprocket and now have an oil drip, so that's another job to do!
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Offline trevinoz

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Re: Glitter
« Reply #14 on: 30.10. 2016 20:08 »
Is the oil gallery from the relief valve to the cam trough blocked?
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