Author Topic: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?  (Read 3809 times)

Offline snowbeard

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splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« on: 11.05. 2009 07:18 »
ok, I've gathered from reading here that the only way to clean the sludge trap is with the cases split.  is that absolutely true?

I have the super rocket to get around to, and was feeling for end play in the cranks, etc.  the crank is nicely tight, very little play.  the cam has a little more side play, but neither moves at all up and down in their bushings/bearings.  no tap or knock that I can discern.

the thing is my cases have been open to whatever might fall in by the PO, left sitting with the barrels off.  I've already found pine needles, moth wings, and tons of blue silicon sealant in and around them.  So by this I pretty much know I should split the cases and verify that things are clean in there before I go any further.

I assume I can do this without having to replace anything (yeah, right, like that'll happen) if everything was happy before the split?

any thoughts?  I have asked for input on modifications I might make to the engine while I'm at it,  I have been told things like the end feed conversion, the needle bearings on the timing side, but I'm not sure if anyone stateside can pull either of those off.
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Offline fido

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #1 on: 11.05. 2009 08:11 »
Yes, pull it apart. It's the only way you will get peace of mind. I've not done one for 25 or so  years but I seem to recall that the strip down and rebuild were fairly straightforward. Getting the sludge trap caps off is another matter though. Ideally you should have replacement caps and a suitable tap for cleaning up the thread before you start. The edges of the caps are peened over with a centre punch, which distorts the thread.

Offline RichardL

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #2 on: 11.05. 2009 08:55 »
Snowbeard,

Failing to clean out my sludge trap, after it sat for 24 years, was, I am rather certain, the reason I did two engine rebuilds, one right after the other. The left-s-de big-end bearing spun from starvation. My excuse was, and I'm standing by it, "what sludge trap?"

The method I used for removal of stubborn plugs was to drill them out so that a heavy allen key could be driven in. Then, replace them with the type having a recessed allen-drive.   It's real late (early?) right now and I'm just takng a break from a work overnighter. If you need the drill  and allen key sizes, I will find them for you.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline coater87

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #3 on: 11.05. 2009 09:06 »
 I would pull it apart too.

 I have limited back ground with MC engines, but quite a bit with automotive. Leaving the chance of any gunk at all in there is asking for more problems later then you will create now.

 I have thought about rebuilding my own motor, and I feel it would be no problem if it was not for line boring the bushes. I have never done anything like that before, and I can find nothing as far as "how to do it right".

 But by breaking the cases (if it can be done with no damage to the bushes) you can clean the gunk out and most important get a good inspection done- you might be surprised what you find be it pleasant or otherwise, and I really believe it will save you some money in the long run.

 Lee
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline RichardL

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #4 on: 11.05. 2009 09:35 »
Lee,

There are a few pictures of line boring the bushes on the forum, somewhere. Must sleep, so I cannot find them myself, right now.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline MikeN

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #5 on: 11.05. 2009 10:42 »
This may sound obvious but , I dont think anyone has mentioned that ,yes you have to split the cases,but you must also deffinately split and remove your con-rods.
  Dont be tempted to clean sludge trap out with them still attatched or you will end up pushing debris up the vital big end feed oilways and into the b/end journals.
 Also,I thought the main bearings were finished with a reamer with an extension pilot to locate in the drive side bearing ? I didnt think they were line-bored (which is something completely different) .
 I do mine with a bearing scraper.
Mike

Offline LJ.

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #6 on: 11.05. 2009 10:47 »
Yes I would go for a split as well... In fact I'm doing my M20 this morning, never split crankcases before so should be interesting, at lease there is no sludge traps to worry about. Good Luck!
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
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Offline snowbeard

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #7 on: 11.05. 2009 17:04 »
great, thanks for all the advice!  anyone know of a good source for new plugs in the states?  allen or otherwise is fine.

any tricks to the con rod bolts? I might go ahead and replace the big end bearing liners while I'm in there.  I read in the service sheets that "in no case should the castellated nuts be backed off to allow the insertion of the split pins, but instead removed and ground until the holes line up"  will those split pins be obvious once I have it apart I suppose?




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Offline RichardL

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #8 on: 11.05. 2009 19:00 »
Try Briistch Cycle Supply britcycle.com (Nova Scotia and New Jersey), Domiracer.com or just buy the from SRM. On an item that small the shipping will not be extravagent. Remember, there are two different shapes, one plain toward the inside and one with a snout that centers the sludge-trap tube. Hold out for the hex-drive type. Use Loctite to hold them in place rather than further dimpling the crankshaft.

Regarding the rod nuts, I believe the current thinking is to use the thread-locking type that do not use a cotter pin. You would do all of your fitting (as in, checking clearances, etc.) with the old nuts, then, once confident spin on the new thread-locking type for a use-once fit. It may make sense to get a new set to go with the dismantling. If you do, again, use the old ones for fitting, then finalize with the new ones. I'm sure you've read the various discussions about replacing rod bolts, so I won't go into it. 

Looking forward to any or all of my bad thinking being hacked to pieces.

Richard L. 

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Online trevinoz

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #9 on: 11.05. 2009 23:50 »
A point to remember if you are replacing slotted nuts with nyloc type, the bearing caps will have to be spot faced to accept the new nuts. They can be fitted without spot facing, but doing so makes life a bit easier.
I would replace the sludge trap screws with the Allen type. Loctite will hold them without peening.
 Trev.

Offline snowbeard

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #10 on: 12.05. 2009 00:02 »
thanks for the pointers, I actually still need to read the threads about new bolts.  I only saw the one that Brian posted

http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=952.0

so I will start putting my order together as I go along, and will check back here to see what the general consensus is, if I have missed replacing anything crucial!

thanks again!
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\1988 BMW K100LT in Lisbon!!

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Offline RichardL

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #11 on: 12.05. 2009 03:47 »
Trev,

The threadlock rod nuts that are nitched, so that the top one or two threads are distorted, appear to be the common approach right now (as far as I can tell).  One good thing about these is that one can take a cold chisel and create a very similer thread distortion for subsequent tightenings. I've heard of spot facing the nut landing zones, but I am not sure it is needed for these deformed nuts. The issue is, "will the locking threads of the nut reach the body threads of the bolt, when tightened."
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online trevinoz

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Re: splitting cases and cleaning sludge trap?
« Reply #12 on: 12.05. 2009 22:31 »
Richard L,
                 The self locking nuts have a larger hexagon than the castellated type so the caps have to be relieved to allow a socket to fit.
  Trev.