Author Topic: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics  (Read 1423 times)

Online mikeb

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6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« on: 10.09. 2016 12:07 »
I've gone a bit mad trying to improve the lighting on the a10 and ended up with bulbs all over the pace. so i finally set up a test and took some pics as below. Same exposure for all pics. for the camera nuts, it was on manual with 1/60 sec f5.6 iso 3200 (which was about 2 stops over on the brightest in the set - some look dim). the lights are 4m away for the door.
BPF means p36d, H4 is p43t. 6v bulbs at 6.25v and 12v at 12.5 v.
I'll start with the 6v standard bulbs and work up from there. the halogens are 'normal' haolgens, not QH or superduper etc
the double dipper is from classic dynamo regulators and has the same brightness on 6 and 12v. its BPF and plug and play
note the Amps each draws - its a massive relief for the poor old the EL3 to have those LEDS

HTH
Mike
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

Online mikeb

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #1 on: 10.09. 2016 12:10 »
I bought an h4 lucas headlamp (reflector) so the first two here are (1) h4 12v halogen and then the (2) h4 5th generation LED from classic dynamo regulators - clearly the best pattern and brightness.

the last one here is the 12v h4 5th gen LED from CDRC with the tab taken off and tie-wired into the old BPF shell. as you can the pattern is not so clear as the h4 shell but its still really bright and reasonably focused. the benefit is the h4 headlamp protrudes much deeper into housing than the BPF and close to the ammeter. I can fit the h4 headlamp into my b33 but the super rocket has indicator flashers and other stuff in there, and is 6v, so i may resort to this strategy to save some space.
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'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

Offline a10gf

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #2 on: 10.09. 2016 12:19 »
Nice. Excellent real-life testing.

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
"Success only gets you a ticket to a much more difficult task"

Online mikeb

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #3 on: 10.09. 2016 12:38 »
here's one showing the different shapes of the bpf and h4 reflectors. the h4 reflector can fit the ok but it tight.

the first pic has the old bpf shell with the CDRC LED in it and shows how much more compact this arrangement is than in an H4 reflector on the right (even tho its a bit rough).

the bpf reflector is obviously a lot older and likely less reflective than the h4, which may affect the pics a bit.
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'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #4 on: 11.09. 2016 10:33 »
Funny you should be talking about this right now.
Just fitted a double dipper to the M20 and am a little dissapointed with it.
In the yard, it was easy to focus in the reflector then fit & adjust .
Nice bright white light.
However on the road it was dissapointing.
While the light is very white, there is just not enough of it and I was still riding in my own shadow every time a car came up from behind.
So I might just go back to the VW reflector with a VW 6V halogen which gives out the best 6V light I have ever used.
However the reflector will need to make an appointment with the sliver plater.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #5 on: 11.09. 2016 15:16 »
I agree with you Trevor. Nice white light as in the pix here and in the literature from the vendors, but dip too concentrated and main too high on mine. Work well as daylight lights, but in three cases in my shed, all with decent reflectors, not as good as a halogen for spread or direction. Certainly limit speed on unlit country roads by night.
I know there had been complaints about the main beam illuminating the moon, and I think my LEDs are later than those, but I still don't think they're that good - Yet.
I think they will be in time though, as they have to be the future. The ones on my modern car are absolutely amazing!
I would have thought the ultimate would be a 'sealed beam LED unit' preset by the suppliers to get these things spot on, because there are variables for which LED suppliers aren't responsible. (All three of the reflectors/lenses into which I've fitted these things are slightly different  . . .) I'm persevering with them through the autumn (this end of the planet) but will probably stick halogens in for the winter again.
Bill

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #6 on: 12.09. 2016 17:05 »
I am yet to try it on a road all by myself .
Riding around the yard 1st & 2nd gear it was more than adequate but then I was not going all that quick.
On the road with no cars for a few seconds it looked promising and ones eyes might get acustomed to them but every second car that approched had 10,000 Watts of flesh burning light so the old pupils could not keep up.
While it was advertised for motorcycle use, all of the instructions were specific to cars and having a second headlamp focused on the same space could be adequate , but I don't think the light from the single ( double on high beam ) is enough .
I have a 45 LED "searchlight" that was $ 15 cheaper than the LED hedlamp and produces a far more useable light .
Shame it is only 5" diameter as I may almost be able to get it to fit inside the M20's Du42 shell.
The light does travel a long way, it lights up a street sign that is 300 meters away really well
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online mikeb

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #7 on: 12.09. 2016 22:13 »
Trevor/Bill - I've done a few night rides on the a10 around the city/motorways with the double dipper. its adequate for this and brighter/better than the 6v 35W halogen but does have that thin light quality that some LED are famous for (low 'chromatic index'?). Its harder to pick out depth. I wouldn't want to do high speed country night riding with it as you would easily over run it.

I think we are at a tipping point of finally having great LEDS, with the remaining problem being the heat they generate. if you want bright and LEDs (for low amps)  then the CDRC 5th-gen H4 is very good. the down-side is the deeper H4 reflector and the cost. And I measured the back of the 12V heatsink at 70 degrees C - it will likely be more inside the headlamp shell. But the benefit is no BPF - I think there is only so much focus to be had from the BFP reflector and brighter bulbs are going to scatter more. Guess that's why they stopped making them 40+ years ago.

I did try a cheap Chinese H4 LED with a fan. I could focus it in the BFP reflector (with a hack) and it was super bright. But when I stuck it in a box (simulating a headlamp shell) for a heat test it died after one hour. Rubbish. The only viable 6V high power LED I can find on the market is the CDRC one. Others are rated 6-36V but actually need 9 or 10V to fire.

I've ordered a 6V CDRC 5th gen H4 and will fit this to the a10- the 12V one (above) is for the B33. I'm going to attempt to fit the 6V one into the BPF reflector as per the hack above. it is possible to get the LEDs to the BPF focal point by (reversibly) bodging the mount and tie-wiring it in. If its too glarey for ongoing traffic I'll reluctantly get another H4 shell and have to re-configure all the stuff I've got in the shell. I'll post back when I've tried it.
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #8 on: 13.09. 2016 10:27 »
Thats interesting.
TheM20 came with a DU142 which is a big headlight.
The original globe is a 24:24 manually focused.
This was an excellent light with a very broad bean and good for 60mph on bitumen in the dry which is fine as the bike is back on the 626 carb and standard gearing so 70 is WFO with a tailwind.
However to get the good light you had to be meticulious with the wiring and I was forever polishing the terminals on the headlamp switch as the steel ball rusts when in contact with the brass terminal and both are in contact with the zinc center.
When on short night rides it was fine , but on long ones particularly in traffic with a lot of brake light time  the poor old 3Pl can not keep up and the battery runs down to the point of working no better than a direct lighting Bantam.
At the ABR last year I rode at night in company with a B33 rider who had one of these double dippers fitted and it seemed like a really good light.
I had previously tried on of the old acorn globes that Groffy used to flog but it could not take the vibes and after cementing it back into the base 3 times I tossed it as it was damaging the reflector.
Handy hint. Do not turn up to a gold & silver plater near knock off time on a motorcycle !
One of the attending policemen ( 8 came all up ), had a sense of humour , 5 did not give a toss but 2 were determined to find something to charge me with.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline duTch

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #9 on: 13.09. 2016 11:57 »

 
Quote
but 2 were determined to find something to charge me with.

 Battery charge for headlight evasion would be the obvious
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online mikeb

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Re: 6v/12v BPF, H4 and LED pics
« Reply #10 on: 27.09. 2016 10:00 »
Here's some more LED headlamp comparisons.
first, the 5th Gen CDRC 6V LED bulb tie-wired into the BPF reflector in the A10 (with the A10's aging battery). it is non-destructively centered by a former. It protrudes less into the headlamp shell than if using a H4 reflector tho not by that much ***. I haven't driven enough at night to comment much but its brighter than the double dipper, reasonably focused,  but also more glarey to traffic and gets a lot hotter. Compared to in a H4 reflector it is much less focus and dimmer. I forgot to take a photo of this bulb in the H4 reflector and its now wired in and staying there, so one comparison missed. one day I might reconfigure stuff in the headlamp shell and get an H4 reflector for it. these LED bulbs also have regulator boxes to fit in there.

second: the H4 CDRC 12V 5th Gen LED in an H4 reflector in the B33. its awesome - bright, well focused, crisp, low glare for other traffic. definitely the best of the lot. *smile*

Third: a cheap H4 LED with the fan inside the H4 reflector, which I thought may keep the wiring/ammeter cooler. rated 4000lm. problem is its enormously fat (would not fit into the BPF) and the plug protrudes a long way out the back. and I'd hate for the whiney little fan to die on a country road at night. Its bright, but much less focused than the CDRC bulb (and no where near as expensive.)

***so how much do the h4 bulbs and their plugs protrude into the headlamp shell? funny you should ask: the h4 shape is more convex than the BPF but half this is out the front. measuring from the back of the glass rim (where the W clips attach it) to the back of the plug or bulb:
BPF reflector with BPF bulb and plug - 72mm
BPF reflector with H4 6V CDRC bulb tied in : 84mm
H4 reflector with H4 6V CDRC fitted: 96mm
H4 refelctor with the H4 12V bulb (above) with fan inside the headlamp shell - 93mm as the big plug is directly on the back of the bulb
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS