Author Topic: Duplex primary chain lubrication  (Read 1124 times)

Offline jimbo

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 0
Duplex primary chain lubrication
« on: 29.10. 2016 11:06 »
Hello from new member Jimbo. I have a 1955 GF with a Rocket cam and pistons, 12V, belt drive dynamo. It is fitted with an older six spring clutch, which had oiled up plates in it due to ATF. Having replaced the friction plates, the clutch is no longer slipping, and neutral can be found when the motor is running. Bliss! As the bike is not doing big mileages, would it be safe to apply LM grease to the duplex chain instead of oil, to prevent plates getting dirty and avoid leaks?
Secondly, are any of the primary cover bolt holes meant to go right through into the cases?

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8505
  • Karma: 112
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #1 on: 29.10. 2016 20:00 »
G'day Jimbo,  *welcome*.
I'm assuming it's a swing arm model fitted with a plunger mainshaft and clutch. If so it should have a domed cover over the clutch preventing oil getting onto the plates. My plunger clutch picture attached (with a few mods).
Grease would not be a good idea, probably affect the clutch plates worse. New plates with modern material should handle the oil OK. The oil (either ATF or engine oil) should just touch the chain
Yes the two holes inside and the three larger (outer primary cover) holes at the front go through the case. If longer screws are used they will foul on the crankshaft.

Now go to Pictures, Stories & Introductions, start a new topic and tell us how you came to be the proud owner of an A10.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Tomcat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 408
  • Karma: 2
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #2 on: 29.10. 2016 22:50 »
ATF? Ive used it in the A65T primary without problems as suggested by this great forum. I just bought an SRM clutch kit and their instruction sheet says don't use it as it will make the clutch slip! ATF is designed to lubricate ball, roller and bush type bearings, to be used as a hydraulic oil and submerges bands and clutch plates which don't slip. SRM suggest that engine oil should be used in the primary, but ommit the crucial bit, motorcycle engine oil. Non motorcycle engine oils have friction modifiers added which make clutches slip. Oil debate number 284 is now up and running!
'48 A7 '59 SR '74 850 Commando TDM900

Offline a101960

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1047
  • Karma: 12
  • BSA RGS BSA C12
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #3 on: 30.10. 2016 09:36 »
Quote
ATF? Ive used it in the A65T primary without problems as suggested by this great forum. I just bought an SRM clutch kit and their instruction sheet says don't use it as it will make the clutch slip!
Yes, well SRM also tell you not use an engine oil filter as it will invalidate the warranty on any engine that they have worked on. ATF works just fine, with the added benefit that if you have a leak the colour will identify it.

Online chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3370
  • Karma: 48
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #4 on: 30.10. 2016 22:38 »
Hi All,
You need the correct type of ATF ?
Since I use Castrol 10/40 motorcycle oil I have not remembered the ATF type

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline coater87

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1181
  • Karma: 6
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #5 on: 31.10. 2016 12:00 »
Quote
ATF? Ive used it in the A65T primary without problems as suggested by this great forum. I just bought an SRM clutch kit and their instruction sheet says don't use it as it will make the clutch slip!
Yes, well SRM also tell you not use an engine oil filter as it will invalidate the warranty on any engine that they have worked on. ATF works just fine, with the added benefit that if you have a leak the colour will identify it.

 They seem to sell some very nice products, but some of the advice does sound a little odd.

 Well, they do rebuild engines. And frequent repeat customers are nice for any shop.
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline MartinK

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 0
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #6 on: 16.08. 2017 11:46 »
I have a 53 Gold Flash with the 6 spring clutch. I cannot find a clutch domed cover so if anyone can help that would be good, thanks.

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 760
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #7 on: 16.08. 2017 14:40 »
I use tractor universal 10W 30 in the various chaincases. It's used for tractor engines, hydraulics and oil-immersed brakes. Ideal in fact for primary chaincases and clutches and much better than normal engine oil. And it's cheap.
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Online morris

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: 26
  • Antwerp, Belgium
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #8 on: 16.08. 2017 17:45 »
I use tractor universal 10W 30 in the various chaincases. It's used for tractor engines, hydraulics and oil-immersed brakes. Ideal in fact for primary chaincases and clutches and much better than normal engine oil. And it's cheap.

Same here. It is also sold as ISO 32 grade hydraulic oil.
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
The world looks better from a motorbike
Belgium

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6499
  • Karma: 36
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #9 on: 16.08. 2017 19:01 »
I have a 53 Gold Flash with the 6 spring clutch. I cannot find a clutch domed cover so if anyone can help that would be good, thanks.
I think to get the best response you should put this in its own topic in the Wanted & For Sale board.  *smile*

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #10 on: 16.08. 2017 20:22 »
Quote
I have a 53 Gold Flash with the 6 spring clutch. I cannot find a clutch domed cover so if anyone can help that would be good, thanks.

 I run mine without and works fine- left it off initially so when I needed to do adjustments less to pull of. There's a few discussions re this
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline bikerboy

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 373
  • Karma: 4
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #11 on: 16.08. 2017 22:39 »
Muskrat

Is that mod that easy to put a duplex chain on a swinging arm model?

I assume you just use the plunger engine sprocket and cush drive as well then?

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #12 on: 17.08. 2017 00:56 »
Quote
Is that mod that easy to put a duplex chain on a swinging arm model?

I assume you just use the plunger engine sprocket and cush drive as well then?

 Also need the basket(obviously),  mainshaft, and adjuster setup... DoD I miss anything?
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline Sluggo

  • Serial Hoarder, or Eccentric Collector depending on viewpoint
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2017
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: 11
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #13 on: 17.08. 2017 02:17 »
+1 on ATF on the primaries,  I have been using it for 3 decades without problems.  I prefer to use the Type F version, as the mercon type 1&2 have different properties. The type F is much better for this application, Ford specs it, although harder to find these days.

On semi unit trans, it was well known for some time the mainshaft adapts to some other appication but many people take the mainshafts out to use in a Harley flathead with a British trans so they can also run a Norton type clutch and the three row chain. At least thats my fuzzy memory of this, but it used to be common to find the semi unit trans minus mainshafts for this reason.  I did not know they interchange with the swing arm trans but makes sense...
Remember that any advice received on a free internet forum is generally worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it.
We overcharge every 3rd customer to pass the savings onto you.
You can have High Quality, Low price, and fast turnaround. Pick any 2, Never all 3 at the same time.

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1075
  • Karma: 20
Re: Duplex primary chain lubrication
« Reply #14 on: 17.08. 2017 09:39 »
The plunger mainshaft was marketed by Eddie Dow as suitable for converting gearboxes to accept Norton type clutch. This photo from his 1967 catalogue.