Not oil circulation again?

[Slippery Sam]

John here's the end feed you wanted to see
Raymond

[Slippery Sam]

Well, not getting anywhere very fast.
Still suffering from ignorance and lack of knowledge/experience.
Got my end feed re-sealed and fitted new shaft seal.
Fitted new sump / gauze / mag plug and gaskets
put everything back together.
Still getting:
oil round to PRV
oil back through inner timing case for end feed
a little oil in the sump and pick up pipe
Nothing back through the return pipe to tank.
However - my main question today is - Should the outer timing case fill with oil round the oil pump section or should that be dry in there?  I suspect this is where the oil is going (filling up and ending up pressurised) - the timing case and rev counter drive also leak!
Does this mean my end feed is leaking again (would weld it this time if that's the problem).
If oil pump section in outer timing case should be dry and not filled with oil - could this mean theres a partial blockage in the crank - or will that always be restricted and only take a small amount of the flow (where would the rest of the flow go?).
Sorry - most of this procrastination is because I don't really have a good picture in my mind of how and where the oil should flow.
Does anyone have a link or pointer to somewhere that would explain this for me?  It would make working out these issues a bit easier.

This last 5% of the build is killing me - everything else is literally ready to go and this is the very last hurdle!

Thanks in advance.
Raymond.

[duTch]

 I think the crank/sludge chamber holds about ~30ml and I realized a while ago the outer timing case should hold I think about 50cc or so, but can't see it'd be pressurised (been wrong before-think it was grade two- ongoing*eek*)

 Timing cover level is up to where the hole is in the main C/Case. There's discussion if you do a search, I think it was one of the Kiwis/Pom had a pic to explain

[Slippery Sam]

Thank you DuTch,
Eventually tracked down the thread with the photos (and load of other interesting threads).  Yeh - this does make a huge difference to my understanding and helps no end.
I'm begining to wonder if it was just the tacho drive leaking badly and running round the bottom of the timing case - making it look like it was leaking from everywhere?  So the pressure thing was a bad / wrong conclusion for me to jump to - wouldn't be much pressure with the amount of oil coming out of the tacho drive.  I have a new SRM PRv to match the SRM oil pump so would hope that'd protect me anyhow.
Armed with this extra knowledge - I will resume tonight and hide the box of matches that I placed on the bench last night - LOL
cheers Raymond.

[chaterlea25]

Hi Raymond
How did you seal the oil transfer block?
SRM weld in this block
This block must hold the full pump pressure somewhere around 60psi cold
If it leaks you will wreck the engine
If you need I was going to pull out an engine project to photo the block welded in place
I cannot see how oil level would get high enough to reach the tacho drive just turning the engine over
That said they are prone to leaking as standard
I eventually made up a new rev drive housing that contains two sealed ball bearings

John

[Slippery Sam]

John,
The transfer block is not welded in place.  It's bonded.  I presume it was sealed when I got the motor but I had to remove some of the inside of the casing and managed to grind through to a mounting hole.  I alloy brazed the hole and think the heat might have damaged the seal.  I used epoxy alloy glue to seal round again.
With what you say in mind, I think I'll pull it all again and weld round the block - better safe than sorry.  Looking at Kiwipom's pictures with the perspex cover on the pump gallery - it looks like the level will be very close to if not right up to the tacho drive.
On my last report - I actually had the tacho adaptor off so no sealing at all (at that time I didn't realise that part of the casing filled with oil!).  I actually had a burst tang on the tacho drive - just from kicking it and was waiting on new bits!  My fault I guess - looked like i had maybe caught the boss on the inner shaft with the gasket and or there was a clearance issue cause the shaft had picked up inside the alloy adaptor.  The cable end also felt like when done right up was probably clamping the shaft too! so new shaft and adaptor on thier way - and this time I'll make sure I'm not clamping it all up when I fit it.  The new kit I ordered has an o ring with it (didn't have that on the first kit) - which part of the shaft does that fit - is it in the recess on the adaptor flange?  that was one of the areas I was orried was clamping the shaft?
Raymond.

[Bsareg]

Hi, read a article some years ago on how SRM modified the end cover. It shows they use Lumiweld to fix the block in

[Slippery Sam]

I have lumiweld.  Will give that a try first - before the tig gets dragged out.
I have scrap cases I can practice on.
It's probably more about not distorting the case than penetration?
Raymond

[Slippery Sam]

The lion roars tonight!
Finally got my oil circulation sorted thanks to Rob Wardle in Gateshead 😀
I got a new outer timing case and new end feed chamber built in.  Now all refitted and got oil at the prv then nipped that up then few more kicks and got oil at the return pipe so coupled up the pipe, few more kicks and got a good squirt back into the tank😜
Plugs in and second kick away it went.
Ran like a Swiss watch, smooth, quiet and responsive. Ran it up to about 3000 rpm but didn't have time to do a proper heat cycle - that'll have to wait till the weekend.
Doesn't appear to be leaking anywhere and rev counter works - not sure how smooth these are meant to be.  Guess I'll need to see another one before I know if I have a problem but it did work - just not smooth(a bit digital).
Couldn't see any charging on the ammeter though. Again didn't have time to get the meter out and trace anything - ammeter works though as when I put the lights on it dips negative. I have a solid state reg so will start there.

Thanks for your help getting this bit right and glad I didn't bash on regardless. If it's worth doing and all that.
Cheers Raymond

[chaterlea25]

Hi Raymond,
Good news

With a fully charged battery and an electronic regulator you will not see a charge on the ammeter
Try running the engine with the lights on and see if the needle comes back to centre +

Yes the rev counter works in a series of steps

John

[Greybeard]

Yes the rev counter works in a series of steps

And the speedo - chronometric mechanism.

[Slippery Sam]

Thanks guys - will try the lights on test as the battery is a new full sized gel effort that is fully charged.
Good news about the rev counter - I suppose these things are hard to say if it's right or wrong when I haven't seen a chronometric working before (and lots of other things on this bike).  Thanks for the heads up.

cheers Raymond.

[harvey mushman]

Excellent news been following this topic with interest! 

[Slippery Sam]

Just had a thought - with having to understand the oil circulation and end feed set up - I still have a grey area.
SO - I'm okay with my set up, I can see (know) where the oil goes and how it gets round the engine and end feed system - but how do the big ends get fed if you were running a standard bottom end with no end feed?  Is it just the overflow from the oil pump chamber filling up that dribbles oil down the crank or is it fed some other way?
Raymond.

[a101960]

Raymond, the image below shows how the big ends are lubricated. Oil enters the crank under pressure via the plain bearing. The point of entry for the oil into the crank shaft oil way is shown as a  dotted line on the drawing.