Author Topic: anti syphon valve  (Read 2712 times)

Offline metalflake11

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #30 on: 21.01. 2017 22:26 »
Why not leave the bike with the pistons at top dead centre this would help wet sumping. oil way in journals upper most.


Pete

There's definitely something in that. I did some work on a B33 a year or so ago. Wet sumped like a gud 'un it did, anyway I ended up having the use of it for a few months, and I found it stopped doing it altogether if I left it at T.D.C.

Different animal altogether, I know, but certainly worth a try.
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Offline duTch

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #31 on: 22.01. 2017 01:32 »
Quote
Why not leave the bike with the pistons at top dead centre this would help wet sumping. oil way in journals upper most.

  I've considered that ^^, but as I'm lucky I don't have wetsump issues, never pursued it; having said that, I also considered that ALL the oil in the crank gallery would drain back to the T/S Main bush and further, so would need to be primed some before startup.

 On the other hand, I also considered what would happen leaving it at BDC, or half way between but as I don't have an issue never bothered.

 I reckon if it'll be parked up long enough to wetsump, best option is to start up periodically (not ideal unless going somewhere), or even better drain the oil tank into a container and re-add it before riding(maybe even through a filter).

 I have to say, I'm getting fairly bored with this crap subject, even if some of the ideas are 'entertaining'


Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline muskrat

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #32 on: 22.01. 2017 19:00 »
Yep, I've said it over and over. If it wet sumps either fix it (split cases and renew the ball & spring) or fit a sump plate with a drain plug and spend a few minutes draining the sump before startup.
Pete, I prefer to leave it at bottom so the crank is full for next startup.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Offline kiwipom

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #33 on: 22.01. 2017 19:12 »
hi guys, good on ya Dutch, I get amused by posts `prattling` on about Spark Plugs but whatever spins your wheels, cheers 
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
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Offline ralph

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #34 on: 01.04. 2017 07:57 »
Just an update for those who got interested.

Did an oil and filter change, got rid of the AS valve, and have fitted this   

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121392722933?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

to the oil tank vent pipe. No probs to associate with excess oil tank pressure apparent after 150 mile run last sunday. Oil tank had warmed up after 20 miles suggesting good circulation. Have been laying up with pistons at TDC. Will get back with how much and how fast oil gets to sump.
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Offline duTch

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #35 on: 01.04. 2017 09:58 »

Quote
....to the oil tank vent pipe.....
yeah-might do it's stuff, but but I think it's a different issue (kettle of fish *conf2*) I'll stand by on the outcome ...

 
Quote
I did some work on a B33 a year or so ago. Wet sumped like a gud 'un it did

 
Quote
Different animal altogether,.............

 probably not so relevant, but; don't the singles run a roller big-end?? which would not affect whether or not to leave it at tdc/bdc/45bdc/57/46/21 a/b/t/bdc...or who cares?? *conf* *smile* *bash*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online bikerbob

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #36 on: 01.04. 2017 14:09 »
Looking at that anti syphon valve I can see the theory behind it, you are in effect making the oil tank airtight assuming of course that the filler cap is air tight. So if air cannot get in then oil cannot leak out or at least  it will slow it down considerably. Not being any kind of expert on these things I would worry if it would affect the oil circulation when the bike is running. I have a similar thing fitted to my tropical fish tank air pump it allows air through to the air stone but when the pump is off it prevents water being syphoned back into the pump.

Offline duTch

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #37 on: 01.04. 2017 19:42 »

 I guess it's the same principle as (from memory) Orabanda Richards'  'flap-valve' (whatever it's called), I run my engine and tank breather pipes into a vented plastic juice bottle below, and happy to say they don't catch much  *eek*, so also use a drip try *pull hair out*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline muskrat

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #38 on: 01.04. 2017 20:43 »
G'day Ralph & all.
My thinking of the n r valve is that when the bike is started cold and the pump scavenges the oil level in the tank rises a little. This creates a slight pressure that the n r valve expels. Then the oil warms up and due to expansion (oil and air in tank) pressure increases and the n R valve expels it. Now when we take our girl to the flicks and come back to the now cold bike a few hours later, there could be a slight vacuum in the tank. Would this restrict flow to the feed side of the pump  *????*
Your thoughts on this?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline ellis

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #39 on: 01.04. 2017 21:24 »
Mmmmm

I think I will refrain from all types of none return valves, and just drain the sump if the bikes stood longer than a couple of months.
Much safer way to protect my precious engine.   *smile*

ELLIS



Offline ralph

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #40 on: 01.04. 2017 22:18 »
G'day Ralph & all.
 Now when we take our girl to the flicks and come back to the now cold bike a few hours later, there could be a slight vacuum in the tank. Would this restrict flow to the feed side of the pump  *????*


Good day to yourself/ves , Quite right by my way of thinking, a theoretical vacuum would be present, but with the return side of the pump being of more volume than the feed, the vacuum would be lost on startup. It would be interesting to attach a pressure guage t't tank. I have a spare cap to drill...........
I need a girl....maybe my life's a vacuum......
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Online bsa-bill

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #41 on: 02.04. 2017 10:01 »
Quote
I have to say, I'm getting fairly bored with this crap subject,

Fair enough but it's always new to someone
All the best - Bill
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Offline muskrat

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #42 on: 02.04. 2017 10:11 »
Ralph, you do have a valid point.Just waiting for Trevor to set us all straight.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Offline RichardL

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #43 on: 02.04. 2017 15:00 »
Oil tank had warmed up after 20 miles suggesting good circulation. Have been laying up with pistons at TDC. Will get back with how much and how fast oil gets to sump.

I assume that this test for a warm tank is not replacing watching for flow from the return tube in the tank just after startup. I try to practice this religiously.  It seems to me that the riskiest time is immediately after startup. So, if you've got the cap off to look in the tank, you are assuring one atmosphere present at that time. After that, with the valve, you start to depend on outflow and inflow maintaining a balance at approximately one atmosphere (under the circumstances described by Muskrat).

Richard L.
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Offline duTch

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Re: anti syphon valve
« Reply #44 on: 02.04. 2017 15:09 »

Quote
I assume that this test for a warm tank is not replacing watching for flow from the return tube in the tank just after startup. I try to practice this religiously.  It seems to me that the riskiest time is immediately after startup. So, if you've got the cap off to look in the tank, you are assuring one atmosphere present at that time. After that, with the valve, you start to depend on outflow and inflow maintaining a balance at approximately one atmosphere (under the circumstances described by Muskrat).

 I tink i overdid the midication *conf2* *eek*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia