Author Topic: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box  (Read 2225 times)

Online muskrat

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #30 on: 04.03. 2017 20:21 »
The plot thickens.
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, .
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Offline anjimehra

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #31 on: 05.03. 2017 17:19 »
But oil will flow around the outside of the bush into the prv port.
So, no oil in the prv means what ?
Anji

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #32 on: 05.03. 2017 19:04 »
G'day Anji.
I still think it's a strip down, there's something amiss down there that would only end in tears if it's ridden.
Cheers
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Offline trevinoz

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #33 on: 05.03. 2017 20:17 »
Anji, oil flows to the main bearing and prv via the check ball behind the pump. If the pump is working and actually pumping oil, the gallery behind the pump is either blocked or open to the sump.
Have you tried poking a wire into the delivery port to see if the ball and spring are there? With the ball depressed the gallery to the main bearing should be able to pass fluid.
If the ball, spring and plug are missing, fluid will flow straight to the sump.

Offline anjimehra

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #34 on: 08.03. 2017 06:53 »
Anji, oil flows to the main bearing and prv via the check ball behind the pump. If the pump is working and actually pumping oil, the gallery behind the pump is either blocked or open to the sump.
Have you tried poking a wire into the delivery port to see if the ball and spring are there? With the ball depressed the gallery to the main bearing should be able to pass fluid.
If the ball, spring and plug are missing, fluid will flow straight to the sump.

Hi Trivinoz
OK, as I understand, oil from the pump goes to the main shell circumferential oil groove  via the anti siphon valve, the to the PRV from where it travels at an angle up to the cam shaft well, lubricating the timing gears en route via a small pin hole.
So, if oil isn't reaching the prv, it could be
a) the a/s valve is not lifting to allow oil through, OR
b) there's a blockage in the line. The bush can't turn as it is one piece bronze
c) oil pump not working. It appears to be working as oil is returning to the tank
I have opened up the pump & lapped the 2 end covers. All else in the pump seems fine
Hoping I don't have to open the engine

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #35 on: 08.03. 2017 10:52 »
Hi Anji.
With the pump removed the top right hole in the casse is the supply to the main bush. poke something in there to feel if the ball is stuck. It should only take very light pressure to push it back. Now get an oil can and hold it firmly against the hoke and pump. Oil should come out the prv hole.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, .
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Online JulianS

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #36 on: 08.03. 2017 11:20 »
Check that the pump is sitting square on the crankcase and make sure the holes in the gasket between pump and crankcase are big enough and do not overlap and slightly mask the holes. Some gaskets offered have holes which are far too small.

If you are using an original oil pump they do distort over the years due to tightening the fixing nuts and the zinc alloy material. The oil chambers can squash a bit reducing pressure and making the pump stiff to turn over.

Offline trevinoz

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #37 on: 08.03. 2017 20:20 »
If oil is returning to the tank, it is obviously reaching the sump.
For oil to reach the sump it can be from the main bearing, the big-end bearings, the PRV via the cam trough and timing gears orifice. Also oil can escape from the pump shaft and when the level in the pump chamber is reached oil will flow into the sump through the crankcase wall.
Another route is through the check ball gallery if the ball, spring and plug are missing.
 Good luck, Anji.

Offline anjimehra

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #38 on: 10.03. 2017 07:50 »
If oil is returning to the tank, it is obviously reaching the sump.
For oil to reach the sump it can be from the main bearing, the big-end bearings, the PRV via the cam trough and timing gears orifice. Also oil can escape from the pump shaft and when the level in the pump chamber is reached oil will flow into the sump through the crankcase wall.
Another route is through the check ball gallery if the ball, spring and plug are missing.
 Good luck, Anji.

Thanks Trevinoz
Another question. I dismantled the pump, lapped the end covers, washed thoroughly & reassembled. Now the pump dose'nt turn by hand, & only does so if I slacken off the bolts a wee bit. Is it OK to assemble as such or will the will the crank worm wheel screw up the pump worm( or vice versa ).Thanks
Anji

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #39 on: 10.03. 2017 18:52 »
G'day Anji.
Re-built pumps will often do that especially if the gears haven't been put back in exactly the same way (tooth for tooth match). The screws must be tight. I find spinning the pump with your thumb whilst doing the screws up one by one a little at a time often works. It may take a few goes to get it right.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online bsa-bill

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #40 on: 10.03. 2017 21:08 »
I should learn to leave well alone but both bikes have pumps I've checked??? and put together again, both were stiff to turn (for the reason Muskrat states) and both have oiled the engines successfully since
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline anjimehra

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #41 on: 11.03. 2017 05:47 »
Thanks Muskrat &  Bill

Offline anjimehra

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #42 on: 13.04. 2017 17:11 »
Hi all
Finally got the time to strip the engine again & this is what I found
The the anti siphon ball valve had somehow jammed. I had to hammer it off the seating. Any ideas. The ball is the right dia I think & the spring is original. Feel some ham fisted previous owner has hammered the ball a bit too hard whilst reseating it.
As a consequence of Lub failure, the main shaft had turned, probably after seizing. Will now check the big ends. Dreading what I'll find. No metal bits in the sump.
Any suggestions on what I should do to the anti siphon set up
Thanks
Anji

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #43 on: 13.04. 2017 18:07 »
Meant the main shaft bush. Sorry

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Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #44 on: 13.04. 2017 21:29 »
G'day Anji.
Bugga! You can buy new ball & spring. Re seat the ball (I get two balls ( *eek*) and use one to re seat (then throw away) and the other to use. You may need to run a drill down the hole to clean the seat just a tad, and then just a light tap on the disposable ball to seat it.
As usual a $2 part failure causes $1000 damage.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7