Author Topic: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box  (Read 2407 times)

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5456
  • Karma: 62
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #15 on: 05.02. 2017 11:43 »
Quote
Loosening the banjo nuts indicates oil reaching the end of the rocker spindles.

Do you have an old type oil can with thumb lever, if you do could you try squirting oil into the end of the rocker shafts, - a bit of a long shot but would eliminate the shafts - leaving the banjo bolts
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #16 on: 06.02. 2017 17:09 »
Opened the prv & it was completely dry. Poked a wire as far as it would go in both the gallery from pump & one to the camshaft. Timing chest had oil in it when I took off the outer cover . Totally foxed !?
Anji

Online chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3260
  • Karma: 47
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #17 on: 06.02. 2017 19:34 »
Hi Anji
I would remove the oil pump and see if oil is flowing through from the oil tank
Carefully strip the pump and check its condition, They can seize up when left idle and then shear the gears or drive when the engine is run  *sad2*
No oil at the PRV means no oil was going to the crank *sad2*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8270
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #18 on: 07.02. 2017 18:25 »
G'day Anji.
I agree with John. When the oi; pump is off, use an oil can to pump oil in the feed hole and see if any gets to the prv. It might have spun bronze bush inside the steel case main bearing blocking the holes.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #19 on: 16.02. 2017 07:56 »
Quote
Loosening the banjo nuts indicates oil reaching the end of the rocker spindles.

Do you have an old type oil can with thumb lever, if you do could you try squirting oil into the end of the rocker shafts, - a bit of a long shot but would eliminate the shafts - leaving the banjo bolts

Hi Bill
Thanks. Stripped the rocker box again & checked oil galleries. All clear, so problem elsewhere. will strip the pump & see.
Anji

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #20 on: 16.02. 2017 08:03 »
Hi Anji
I would remove the oil pump and see if oil is flowing through from the oil tank
Carefully strip the pump and check its condition, They can seize up when left idle and then shear the gears or drive when the engine is run  *sad2*
No oil at the PRV means no oil was going to the crank *sad2*

John

Hi John
Will strip the oil pump today. However, if its a pump problem, how is the timing cover full of oil everytime I remove it , & oil is returning to the tank? I have also squeezed petrol into the horizontal gallery in the PRV housing & it comes out into the inner timing cover. oil pump nuts are tight.Anji

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #21 on: 16.02. 2017 08:05 »
G'day Anji.
I agree with John. When the oi; pump is off, use an oil can to pump oil in the feed hole and see if any gets to the prv. It might have spun bronze bush inside the steel case main bearing blocking the holes.
Cheers
Hi Muskrat
Good point will check today. Thanks
Anji

Online chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3260
  • Karma: 47
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #22 on: 16.02. 2017 20:51 »
Hi Anji,
Only a strip and examination of all the parts will reveal the problem *????* *????*

Quote
I have also squeezed petrol into the horizontal gallery in the PRV housing & it comes out into the inner timing cover. oil pump nuts are tight.Anji

That does not sound good ?????

While you are at it arrange something to rest a screw driver on and under the crank nut
Try and lever the crank upwards, if theres movement then the main bush is in trouble  *sad2*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #23 on: 03.03. 2017 06:51 »
Just clearing my own thinking on the general subject of lubrication. As far as I understand, oil from the pressure side of the pump travels via the PRV to the mains & big ends. From there it drips into the sump to be returned to the tank. When the oil pressure exceeds 50 psi the PRV lifts & allows oil to the cam shaft & timing chest. Sop, if the pRV is dry, presuure side of pump not delivering ?? Is this possible as the pump is working & oil returning to the tank, albeit in spurts & not a continuous flow.
Could someone please sort this out for me
Thanks
Anji

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8270
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #24 on: 03.03. 2017 10:15 »
G'day Anji.
The oil is fed to the bush, from there it's fed to the big ends. It also branches off to the oprv. If the pressure builds to 50 Lb excess is then diverted to the cam & timing gears.
From what I read the bush has spun depriving all but the sump, oil. What oil is getting to the sump is picked up by the scavenge side of the pump and returned to the tank.
I hope I'm wrong, but if anyone can come up with a better explanation, a total strip is in order.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #25 on: 04.03. 2017 06:52 »
G'day Anji.
The oil is fed to the bush, from there it's fed to the big ends. It also branches off to the oprv. If the pressure builds to 50 Lb excess is then diverted to the cam & timing gears.
From what I read the bush has spun depriving all but the sump, oil. What oil is getting to the sump is picked up by the scavenge side of the pump and returned to the tank.
I hope I'm wrong, but if anyone can come up with a better explanation, a total strip is in order.
Cheers

Thanks Muskrat. Not looking forward to this.
Another thought. If oil branches off to the prv on the way to the mains, then why is the prv dry ? If the pump is delivering, then irrespective of whether the bush has rotated, oil should reach the prv. Have stripped the pump & all seems in order. As a precaution have lapped the pump end covers. Tried blowing compressed air from the prv housing end, but not exiting from the pump end port. Am sure all galleries were cleared before assembly.
Anji

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #26 on: 04.03. 2017 09:34 »
 
Quote
... Tried blowing compressed air from the prv housing end, but not exiting from the pump end port...

 Isn't the anti syphon valve in there, which would stop the air?
 Maybe blow the other way?
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline anjimehra

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 0
    • venture on wheels
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #27 on: 04.03. 2017 12:12 »
Quote
... Tried blowing compressed air from the prv housing end, but not exiting from the pump end port...

 Isn't the anti siphon valve in there, which would stop the air?
 Maybe blow the other way?
Hi Dutch
Tried blowing from both ends ie. from the prv side as well as from the delivery port on the case.
Anji

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8270
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #28 on: 04.03. 2017 19:58 »
If the bronze bush inside the steel casing has spun the holes will not line up preventing oil to go anywhere but seep out the pump or around the outside of the bush. Solid bronze bush's are safer than the 2 piece variety.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2903
  • Karma: 67
Re: 1952 A7 oil to rocker box
« Reply #29 on: 04.03. 2017 20:01 »
But oil will flow around the outside of the bush into the prv port.