Author Topic: Clutch etc.  (Read 3024 times)

Offline duTch

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #60 on: 20.05. 2017 17:29 »

 
Quote
but it occurred to me that as the primary chain case oil is there only for the chain, how are the 1/4 roller bearings and housings lubricated? 

 yeah- I wonder the same thing *dunno*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #61 on: 20.05. 2017 17:46 »
Clutch rollers don't need much more than the smell of oil.

Online RichardL

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #62 on: 20.05. 2017 17:50 »
This question of how much oil flies around under the primary chain cover needs a good answer. I think it's a lot, such that our clutches are effectively "wet clutches",  with bearings and push-rod ends lubricated. Of course, grease should be used during assembly, but I don't think the grease is captive. I know I'm going to hear about the early cover for the six-spring clutches, but BSA abandoned it, maybe for two reasons: 1) It probably didn't do a great job of keeping out the oil; 2) The six-spring clutch probably worked better a little wet.

Anyway, I plan to do rough test of how much oil flies around inside the case by placing an absorbent disk behind the fill cap and riding around a bit, but not today, because it's raining.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Rgs-Bill

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #63 on: 20.05. 2017 21:25 »
This question of how much oil flies around under the primary chain cover needs a good answer. I think it's a lot, such that our clutches are effectively "wet clutches",  with bearings and push-rod ends lubricated. Of course, grease should be used during assembly, but I don't think the grease is captive. I know I'm going to hear about the early cover for the six-spring clutches, but BSA abandoned it, maybe for two reasons: 1) It probably didn't do a great job of keeping out the oil; 2) The six-spring clutch probably worked better a little wet.

Anyway, I plan to do rough test of how much oil flies around inside the case by placing an absorbent disk behind the fill cap and riding around a bit, but not today, because it's raining.

Richard L.

     Run your primary dry, and go for a ride, when you get back to starting point open the inspection plug, and look at the primary chain right away, no waiting, do not touch it though because it should be almost red hot.  Not my own experience, this has been here on the site before posted by some one else.  The clutch roller  bearings just need a whiff or MIST of the oil.
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Although getting a bit tougher to do ! !

Online RichardL

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #64 on: 20.05. 2017 22:33 »
Not going to do that. I hope I did not imply that I thought the chain does not need the oil. While the roller bearings or balls may need only a mist, I am thinking they get quite a bit more than a mist.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online muskrat

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #65 on: 21.05. 2017 06:24 »
G'day all.
When I was racing the A7SS I ran an open (dry) chain primary. I'd give the chain a squirt of lube and do a 25 mile race. The chain would be very hot on returning to the pits. Same for the next 5 or 6 races over a weekend meeting. I only used a standard chain, nothing fancy, and would get a whole meeting before it needed adjustment and two meetings till replacement. The rollers would get a fresh packing of grease every meeting.
As stated ^^^ the rollers only need a mist and the chain only needs to just dip into the oil. The factory recommended oil level is quite high. Probably allowing for leakage (yes they all do that sir).
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Muskys Plunger A7

Online cyclobutch

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #66 on: 22.05. 2017 14:07 »
Ha, I understand now!  Here in darkest Essex, it's referred to as an " Effin great hammer" *work*

Deepest darkest Essex?

Various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #67 on: 29.05. 2018 06:55 »
Gents,
I am now assembling the 4-spring clutch on my 1961 GF. I have a query about the number of plates, so it fits with this topic.
After measuring my clutch, I believe I have a smaller Inner Drum. It measures 30mm above the stops at the back of the drum, whereas I think it should be 35mm and apparently not original. All other parts are new. ( I didn't intend to replace the whole clutch, but I got carried away). The chainwheel depth is 34.6mm as best I can measure.
For the moment I think I will stick with the smaller Inner Drum until I can find (afford) to fork out even more hard-earned, as they seem to sell for about GBP 50 plus postage to Oz.
I purchased a full set of plates from Draganfly recently whilst they had an Offer going.
The plates seem to be a bit thicker than they should be.
The Plain Plates (P) are 2.00mm thick, and the Friction plates (F) are 4.00 - 4.05mm.
If I measure the thickness of the stacks, 6P+5F = 32.1mm, so spill over the Inner Drum. 5P+4F = 26.2mm.
In the short term I cannot run 6P+5F, so looks like I will use 5P+4F. This leaves about 3.9mm freeboard on the inner Drum. When I installed the plates temporarily, I measured 3.6mm freeboard.
The photos show both situations .
Given the normal lift of the pushrod, is 3.6mm sufficient to avoid pushing the last plain plate off the end of the drum.?
If I put two plain plates at the back, this will then give me 1.6mm freeboard. Probably not sufficient.???
I like to adjust the clutch hand-lever to give about 1/2" free play at the end of the lever. I have the original standard levers, so presumably 7/8" from pivot.
I have played around with the cable, and seem to get a total lift of about 10-12mm from fully engaged to fully disengaged (lever out to lever touching handlebar). This seems a lot. Perhaps I have got something wrong here.??
So my question is - How much freeboard from last plate to outer edge of inner drum is required.??
And a second question.
If I purchase the correct inner drum, the Draganfly 6P+5F plates stack will be 32.1mm thickness, leaving only 2.9mm freeboard. Is this a bit too little.??
Cheers
Colin
Colsbeeza
Australia

Offline duTch

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #68 on: 29.05. 2018 09:41 »

Quote
Given the normal lift of the pushrod, is 3.6mm sufficient to avoid pushing the last plain plate off the end of the drum.?

 As far as I can tell, nothing is 'pushed' other than the Pressure Plate. All the plates should be free to spin when the pressure is released

 I know they different beasts, but sounds like similar hassle I have/had with my Plunger (~3.2mm pushrod travel), and left out  *conf2* at least a friction plate and left a plain plate against the Pressure plate...seems to work better, but need to revisit my springs.

 
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #69 on: 29.05. 2018 11:49 »
Assemble it and you’ll see if the outer plain plate can fall off the end when you pull the lever.  You can stop it happening by bending three of the twelve
tabs on the plate inward to catch the splines on the drum.

10 mm lift sounds like more than you need. Measure the lever’s pivot to nipple centres distance. Maybe you’ve got inch and an eighth.

Offline duTch

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #70 on: 29.05. 2018 15:55 »

 I just remembered that with the standard full set of plates, my spring nuts wouldn't engage enough to stay in place- constant adjustment *rant*
 
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Greybeard

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #71 on: 29.05. 2018 15:59 »
I just remembered that with the standard full set of plates, my spring nuts wouldn't engage enough to stay in place- constant adjustment *rant*
One needs one's nuts to stay in place, eh?

Offline duTch

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #72 on: 29.05. 2018 16:12 »

 I got plenty but're all loose *conf2*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Greybeard

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #73 on: 29.05. 2018 16:31 »
I got plenty but're all loose *conf2*
According to my computer, it's 1:15 am for you. Can't you sleep? Better stop checking your nuts!

Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Clutch etc.
« Reply #74 on: 31.05. 2018 07:49 »
Thanks fellas,
I will go with 5P+4F, assemble it and measure the movement. Dutch's 3.2mm seems ideal.
Cheers
Colin
Colsbeeza
Australia