Author Topic: Oil Question  (Read 1092 times)

Offline RoyC

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Oil Question
« on: 08.04. 2017 13:30 »
I have purchased 4L of Mobil 1 15W-50 Racing 4T synthetic motorcycle oil for my 1958 A7ss.
My question is :- Can I also use this same oil in my primary chain case or will it not work with the clutch (6 spring) ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322388335677?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Thanks.

P.S. I have just removed the primary cover and the fluid that came out has the same colour as automatic transmission fluid.

Just found the answer - use mineral engine oil in primary chain case.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Staffordshire UK

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #1 on: 08.04. 2017 15:15 »
First, I think it's safe to say that most of us are using ATF in the primary case, though, it's not what was originally specified.

As for the Mobil Racing 4T, I think Mobil has put out some confusing information about this. If you look at the 10W-40 version, their advertising says it's specifically designed for wet clutches, but the 15w-50 does not say this. In fact, I found this post on another forum:  http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/99074-reply-from-mobil-on-their-15w-50-a.html . In this link, Mobil is suggesting against using the 15w-50 for wet clutches and goes on to suggest using their V-twin oil, instead.

Also, for 10w-40, you can find a PPM number for zinc (1200), whereas I was unable to find a number for the 15w-50. By my understanding, with flat(tish) tappets like ours, the more zinc the better. I use Valvoline 20w50 VR1 Racing Oil with 1300 PPM zinc. As it turns to out, the V-Twin oil has about 1800 PPM zinc, so I'm going to look into that, but continue to use ATF in the primary.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online Greybeard

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #2 on: 08.04. 2017 16:43 »
I took advice from the Trusties on this forum and put ATF in my primary case, EP90 in the G'box and I use single grade SAE 40 in the engine, along with a clean sludge trap and a return line filter. Using different oils in each area at least narrows down leak detection.

Offline RoyC

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #3 on: 08.04. 2017 17:18 »
First, I think it's safe to say that most of us are using ATF in the primary case, though, it's not what was originally specified.

As for the Mobil Racing 4T, I think Mobil has put out some confusing information about this. If you look at the 10W-40 version, their advertising says it's specifically designed for wet clutches, but the 15w-50 does not say this. In fact, I found this post on another forum:  http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/99074-reply-from-mobil-on-their-15w-50-a.html . In this link, Mobil is suggesting against using the 15w-50 for wet clutches and goes on to suggest using their V-twin oil, instead.

Also, for 10w-40, you can find a PPM number for zinc (1200), whereas I was unable to find a number for the 15w-50. By my understanding, with flat(tish) tappets like ours, the more zinc the better. I use Valvoline 20w50 VR1 Racing Oil with 1300 PPM zinc. As it turns to out, the V-Twin oil has about 1800 PPM zinc, so I'm going to look into that, but continue to use ATF in the primary.

Richard L.

Is this the oil that would be better in my engine - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silkolene-V-TWIN-20W-50-Mineral-Based-Bike-20W50-4T-Engine-Oil-3-x-1-Litre-3L-/171790272100?hash=item27ff7f8664:g:NEwAAOSwoydWqjVn ?

I have loads of ATF so will use that in my primary case.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Staffordshire UK

Online JulianS

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #4 on: 08.04. 2017 17:51 »
There are many different specifications of ATF due to the various needs of different transmission designs.

Not all may be suitable for our clutches.

I used "type F" (a Ford spec from some years back) for several years but have now gone back to  20 SAE.


Offline RoyC

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #5 on: 08.04. 2017 19:29 »
There are many different specifications of ATF due to the various needs of different transmission designs.

Not all may be suitable for our clutches.

I used "type F" (a Ford spec from some years back) for several years but have now gone back to  20 SAE.

I have some type F that I used to put in my Lincoln Continental (Ford) so I will use that.

Thank you all for stopping me from cocking my clutch up.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Staffordshire UK

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #6 on: 08.04. 2017 19:59 »
Roy,

I won't be telling you which one to use. Others here may be more comfortable doing so, but I thought this post was an interesting description of the various ATFs from which one could form an educated opinion. http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/engine-oils-lubrication/136694-some-observations-atf.html#/topics/136694?page=1

In any case, I think you can always change to something else if you think there is room for improvement.

Richard  L.

Ric
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline RoyC

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #7 on: 08.04. 2017 21:17 »
Thanks for that Richard.
I have type F and Dexron so have a choice.
I may give the Dexron a go first.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Staffordshire UK

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #8 on: 08.04. 2017 22:00 »
As well as ATF I think lawnmower oil is a popular choice for the primary, I use Briggs and Stratton sae 30, and being red, you can like ATF see when it's leaking out  *pull hair out*

My A10 leaked ATF worse than when filled with the sae 30, I think because it's thinner, I would not dare put ATF in my B31, its thin steel cases look like they will leak like a sieve  *bash*

I used the 4T oils on several modern bikes with wet clutches with no problems, I did not look into it in detail but assumed it was specifically made for use with wet clutches?

I used castrol gtx in my big Suzuki v twin once, and sure enough the clutch slipped until I changed the oil to a motorbike grade, silly me  *countdown* *sick*
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash EA7-168x, CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

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Offline bikerbob

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #9 on: 09.04. 2017 10:30 »
I have used straight 20 grade fork oil for 20 years in various BSA bikes with no problems the reason for using it was I was advised to use it 20 years ago because it does not emulsify like some other oils.

Offline duTch

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #10 on: 09.04. 2017 11:27 »

 I've wondered about the grades and functionality of ATF grades since I tried mixing it 50/50 with acetone as a penetrator after suggestions by olev? and MG, but it separated immediately... *conf*

 Having said that, my most recent use is a Penrite 'Top Up' (a bit of a 'multi-grade' ATF ?), as was the best option in a hurry, but can't say it's good or not as the primary is still goin' around, but I know it still leaks.

 ATF is also recommended for use as fork oil in A65's and Moto Gutzzi, so I do that
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline RoyC

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #11 on: 11.04. 2017 18:15 »
I took advice from the Trusties on this forum and put ATF in my primary case, EP90 in the G'box and I use single grade SAE 40 in the engine, along with a clean sludge trap and a return line filter. Using different oils in each area at least narrows down leak detection.

Are you sure that you use EP90 and not EP80 in the G'box?
EP90 is back axle oil, EP80 is normally G'box oil.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Staffordshire UK

Online Greybeard

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #12 on: 11.04. 2017 20:48 »

I took advice from the Trusties....
...EP90 in the G'box..

Quote
Are you sure that you use EP90 and not EP80 in the G'box?
EP90 is back axle oil, EP80 is normally G'box oil.


You might be right; I was working from memory; I'll check the bottle tomorrow.

Online JulianS

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #13 on: 12.04. 2017 10:12 »
Worth looking at the Morris website. Lots of useful information on oils in classic vehicles, including low detergent engine oils to suit the simple filtration systems fitted as standard.


https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/products/classsteam/classic-engine-oils.html


 

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: Oil Question
« Reply #14 on: 12.04. 2017 10:14 »
I use tractor universal 10W-30 in my primary chaincase and forks (and tractors). Although it's primarily a diesel engine oil, it is also suitable for hydraulics and for oil bath brakes as found in tractors. Works a treat for me. And it's cheap.
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep