Author Topic: wet sumping  (Read 6218 times)

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #15 on: 10.09. 2009 10:27 »
As I (and others) have said 1000 + times, it is your bike and you are welcome to fit whatever you dam well wish to it.
OTOH it dose not hurt to hear both sides before you make up your mind.
BSA already fitted a check valve to the supply side of the pump which when it fails always fails open.
Aftermarket ones have been known to fail closed which is a bit of a worry in a suitation where your ear is the only gauge of weather the oil is flowing or not.
There is a lot more to proper lubrication than just having clean oil, like control of the volume ( flow rate) of oil passing through a part an any one time.  Modern engines use jets in the oil galleries to control flow.
BSA just used different sized holes and too much oil can do almost as much damage to white metal bushes as too little oil flow so there is much to be said for sticking to the original settings, particularly when you have to offer a warrantie on your repairs and have no control over how the bike is being ridden
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline MikeN

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #16 on: 10.09. 2009 12:13 »
The principle employed by these valves was incorporated into the Veloctte lubrication system, and I am not aware of a plague of Velocette engines being wrecked due to this component.

Regarding the above,
When Velocette introduced the valve in their lubrication system they also increased the capacity of the oil pump. There was probably a good reason for doing so.
   Also  Velocettes have roller big ends.I would not want to risk starving a soft metal plain big end of oil for a second.
 Mike

Offline A10Boy

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #17 on: 10.09. 2009 14:44 »
It seems to me that the decission whether to use multigrade with a filter or the original set up of straight oil with the sludgetrap is down to personal preference largely based on the number of miles covered. The main thing whichever way we go is that the oil is changed regularly. In my experience with regular oil changes the engine will have covered enough miles to need a rebuild before the sludgetrap blocks up.

I know a chap who uses round nosed mole grips to gently clamp his oil supply pipe if he isnt going to use the bike for a while. They work well without damaging the pipe and are very obvious being next to the kick start so dont get forgotten.

 *smile*
Regards

Andy

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1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline rocket man

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #18 on: 10.09. 2009 19:57 »
on to the subject again on wet sumping i only do about 1000 miles a year on my bsa
and i always oil change every year so it wont matter to me about a filter or different oil
also im still running  her in which i think on a total engine rebuild-will take at least 2000 miles
and if i used an oil with detergents in it it wont break in properly 

Richard

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #19 on: 10.09. 2009 20:37 »
Now as for running in 2000 miles seems a lot but if you are happy to do that sort of running in it will not harm the engine as long as you increase the revs gradually for short periods at regular intervals and not keep to one rev range for the entire 2000 miles and then think ok I can race her about now as you can have problems, as for oil types that is a minefield as we all have our own opinion about oil and there seems to be conflicting expert advice on the subject so use what you consider to be best for you as lets face it as long as there is oil in the engine and it is not to old you will have lubrication.
I hope I have explained wot I mean
Richard

Offline rocket man

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #20 on: 10.09. 2009 22:00 »
i do vary the speed on my bike  during the running in period im  still runing
her in and when ive finished i wont be thrashing her i will treat her with
respect after all shes older than me 48 years to be exact i have a sports
bike aswell  wich does get some stick a gsxr1000 i got the BSA because it
reminds me ove the 1960s a good period in history and i love the classic lines
of her shes like a fine wine mature and tasty

Online RichardL

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #21 on: 11.09. 2009 00:44 »
Wow! This topic has really meandered. Anyway, regarding running in, the page from the instruction manual, as included at the Golden Flash home page is attached. My book by W.C. Haycraft says keep it below 45 mph in the first 1500 miles. Almost impossible, too much temptation. (But I've managed to keep it below 55).

As for wet sumping, as long as it is not excessive and there is a good amount of oil in the tank above the supply line, I start up and let it idle (or a bit more). At first the return to the tank is continuous and, after a bit, it's sputtering properly again. Thus, I am not challenging the engine with a sumpfull.

Regards,

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online muskrat

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #22 on: 11.09. 2009 13:32 »
Wet sumping, I love it. Check oil tank, 1 pint missing, it's in the sump. Wind over a few times to coat everything in oil then drain sump and top up tank. No dry starts, bewtiful.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online RichardL

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #23 on: 11.09. 2009 13:48 »
I guess I'd better ask the question before I do or say something stupid (again?). I am of the understanding that as long as there is supply oil in the tank and not so much in the sump as to cause a pressure lock, the worst that wet sumping can do is make an oil spill on the floor from return vent overflow or cause a period of excessive smoke, neither of which I've experienced even if being more (much more?) than a pint low. Is there a big obvious or not so obvious thing I am missing?

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline beezalex

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #24 on: 11.09. 2009 14:11 »
Richard, you've got it right...and your spelling is impeccable, too. *smile*

Regarding running in:  Use the right piston clearances and bed the rings dry and they will seat in less than a minute.  After that baby it, thrash it, do anything you like, it won't make any difference.
Alex

Too many BSA's


Offline MikeN

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #25 on: 11.09. 2009 20:36 »


Regarding running in:  Use the right piston clearances and bed the rings dry and they will seat in less than a minute.  After that baby it, thrash it, do anything you like, it won't make any difference.

Beezalux,
 What do you mean when you say "bed the rings dry" ?  I havent heard that expression before.
Mike

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #26 on: 12.09. 2009 01:15 »
Rings running dry in a bore will bed in ( conform to the size & shape of the bore) very quickly.
Many engine rebuilders actually run engines dry to do just that.
Difference is they do it every day and like the mechanic who can torque an engine from experience know exactly how to do it.
I used to slosh gallons of oil over everything when I redid engines.
Now days the ring slipper ( installing device ) gets a light spray with WD 40 just to allow the rings to slip over the surface without damage and the rings themselves get no oil while the ring groves get a light coat of light machine oil.
The engine is filled with very light oil 10 -15wt for the initial break in period ( about 100-200 miles) before being changed to the 20-40W oil that I currently use for everything.
Since this change I have never had problems with rings that did not bed in which used to be a problem for me in the past.

As for wet sumping itself, I never worry about it.
If the oil is above the outlet in the tank, I start the bike.
If there is too much viscious drag from the oil in the sump then I take out the plugs and kick over the engine for a few minutes till the drag is less. It is amazing just how fast the return side of the oil pump can pump down a full sump.
Then of course when the bike starts, you DO NOT REV IT HARD , till it stops smoking or you can pop the crank case oil seal if there is still a lot of oil in the sump.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online Brian

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #27 on: 12.09. 2009 01:23 »
I'm very meticulous with the running in of my engines, I never exceed full throttle for the first thousand miles......................

Offline A10Boy

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #28 on: 12.09. 2009 10:50 »
Rings

When I was a lad I had a 1950s book about tuning BMC engines [Morris A30 / A40 etc], the engine builder said that after a rebuild he put a shot of metal polish [abrasive] into each plug hole to help the rings bed in!

Regards

Andy

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1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline motoloco

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Re: wet sumping
« Reply #29 on: 12.09. 2009 21:45 »
hi guys just retured to spain after 5 weeks in the uk jumped straight on my norton 88 rode 7 miles without turning the oil on oops  ,sounds ok still,then started the a10 up looking in the oil tank at the return thought that looks good but oil looks a bit low but is was a bit dark in garage and being 70 yrs dont see quite so good , after a few mins got off bike get some more oil and promptly fell idiot over tit on the oil slicknow under the bike .next not to be daunted started up my rgs copy checking the oil flow  lovely no oil under bike but ihad fitted an rgm one way valve just before i left for uk  i did worry a little about fitting it but carefull to leave a loop or sag in the pipe below the level of pump to retain a little oil . oh one other thing the rgm valve is THREE EIGHTS and the BSA pipe about a Quarter there abouts  you got 3 choices break your engine, break your neck ,fit a tap ,or drain the sump and im getting to fat im 6ft2 and dont want get under neath every time i want to ride me bikes, bugger thats 5 reasons . i love reading the forum dont get to serious guys do your own thing , motoloco alicante. *smiley4*
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