Author Topic: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10  (Read 1652 times)

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #15 on: 08.07. 2017 22:46 »

 
Quote
.....The ball of the clutch push rod has fallen out........

 Do you mean the push rod adjuster?

 Sounds yukko, and the shaft is 0.3mm bent? That equates to ~0.012" (12 thou?) ?
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline peter

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
  • Aadorf in Switzerland
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #16 on: 10.07. 2017 21:14 »
Yes, it was the adjuster, I had written it wrong. Now I have ordered a new mainshaft from degroot-bsa.
It's difficult for me I can not write English so well.
kind regards Peter

Good Advice
0
No reactions
1956 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
1956 AJS 18s
1949 Royal Enfield 500 J2
1954 Golden Flash 650
1985 Virago V1000
2001 Wildstar V1600
1966 Velosolex 50
1999 Virago XV 1100
2012 Kawasaki W800
2016 KTM Duke 390

Offline peter

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
  • Aadorf in Switzerland
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #17 on: 12.07. 2017 19:55 »
Hello again,
The gearbox-housing halves were screwed together with paper seals, is that important or can I only take sealant?
The photos show the two trough the ball demolished gears.
kind regards
Peter
Good Advice
0
No reactions
1956 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
1956 AJS 18s
1949 Royal Enfield 500 J2
1954 Golden Flash 650
1985 Virago V1000
2001 Wildstar V1600
1966 Velosolex 50
1999 Virago XV 1100
2012 Kawasaki W800
2016 KTM Duke 390

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1036
  • Karma: 20
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #18 on: 13.07. 2017 11:38 »
I use gaskets plus sealant - the inner cover gasket does have a slight effect on clutch alignment and also an effect on clearance between quadrant and camplate and layshaft float.

The outer cover gasket can effect clearance between selector and quadrant.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline Topdad

  • bob hebdon
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 2250
  • Karma: 32
  • l
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #19 on: 13.07. 2017 13:46 »
Nasty , ripped those gears apart and god they are tough !
Good Advice
0
No reactions
" rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools"
United Kingdom

Offline coater87

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1181
  • Karma: 6
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #20 on: 13.07. 2017 16:34 »
Nasty , ripped those gears apart and god they are tough !

  *eek* I was thinking the exact same thing!

 I would really look closely at every part of that box looking for any other damage, including the case. That took a huge amount of force.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline peter

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
  • Aadorf in Switzerland
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #21 on: 19.07. 2017 15:29 »
I again,
exept the axles and the gears is all ok, the gearbox has no damage.
In the pictures you can see the gear with the missing tooth and how I press this out.
JulianS had told  me that I need the gaskets and so I have ordered both,  thank
a lot for your advice.
Kind regards Peter
Good Advice
0
No reactions
1956 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
1956 AJS 18s
1949 Royal Enfield 500 J2
1954 Golden Flash 650
1985 Virago V1000
2001 Wildstar V1600
1966 Velosolex 50
1999 Virago XV 1100
2012 Kawasaki W800
2016 KTM Duke 390

Offline Sluggo

  • Serial Hoarder, or Eccentric Collector depending on viewpoint
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2017
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: 11
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #22 on: 19.07. 2017 19:41 »
Sounds like the issue was sorted and success! just want to add when removing or replacing gears or parts with an interference fit that Heat and cooling IS your friend!  *smile*

Of course a large Hydraulic press is VERY effective!

When pressing or removing a pressed on gear, Warm the gear itself with a torch NOT TOO MUCH, but warm it and wrap the shaft with a towel soaked in COLD water, and it can change dimensions by several thou" and separate quite easily.  Same in reverse,  Heat in an oven the part you want to expand, and chill in the freezer what you want to minimize.
Gears and trans shafts especially are very fiddly so have seen a few items break or crack when being pressed or taken apart,
When manufactured they are (generally) made out of a high quality steel and inside is somewhat malleable and soft, but the exterior wear surfaces receive a heat treatment.  The depth of which varies.  BSA were also a metals company and in my view,, much of their materials WERE built to a price but tended to be pretty good stuff compared to Norton-AMC and others. 

I have seen some videos (Cough cough) that show some rather agricultural practices with gearbox rebuilding (Wont name names) but I shudder every time I think of it when I see Bodgers heating up engine or gearbox cases with a torch willy-nilly and then WHACK! beat in bearings with a resounding THUD with implements of destruction.
Cast aluminum is a particular entity and not meant to be heated and distorted in such manner.
CAREFUL and slow application of heat (Suggest start at 150 deg F., then up to 200 deg F , then 300 deg F  ALLOW to normalize in each stage) then remove, press in or remove bearings or bushes, THEN wrap with a towell or replace back in Oven and allow to cool over several hours SLOWLY..  Expecting a alloy casting to hold tolerances 70 years on and then beating the Bejeezus out of it is unrealistic
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Remember that any advice received on a free internet forum is generally worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it.
We overcharge every 3rd customer to pass the savings onto you.
You can have High Quality, Low price, and fast turnaround. Pick any 2, Never all 3 at the same time.

Offline peter

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
  • Aadorf in Switzerland
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #23 on: 31.07. 2017 13:47 »
Hi ,
 I have noticed, the" layshaft bush closed end" is worn, I have ordered a new one now the question:
cam I press out the old one, should I cool the new one and warm the casing?Has one  already done like this?Are there tricks for this work.
Thanks in advance,
Peter
Good Advice
0
No reactions
1956 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
1956 AJS 18s
1949 Royal Enfield 500 J2
1954 Golden Flash 650
1985 Virago V1000
2001 Wildstar V1600
1966 Velosolex 50
1999 Virago XV 1100
2012 Kawasaki W800
2016 KTM Duke 390

Online chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3314
  • Karma: 47
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #24 on: 31.07. 2017 19:33 »
Hi Peter,
Heat the casing and tap the old bush out,
I have found that the layshafts are usually worn as well
So either a new shaft or machine the old one undersize and make new bushes to suit

John
Good Advice
0
No reactions
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline bikerboy

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 367
  • Karma: 4
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #25 on: 16.08. 2017 22:56 »
Sometimes I long for the old days when all we had was a hammer, a screwdriver and three spanners  *smile*
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5512
  • Karma: 64
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #26 on: 17.08. 2017 19:47 »
Quote
and three spanners  *smile*

three BSA spanners fitted 7 or 8 nut sized if I recall (come to think about it that covers just about all on an A7/A10)
Good Advice
0
No reactions
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Topdad

  • bob hebdon
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 2250
  • Karma: 32
  • l
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #27 on: 22.08. 2017 11:09 »
Bill ,like wise Mk2 Jags ,you'd strip one out with 5 or 6 ring spanners  *smile*
Good Advice
0
No reactions
" rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools"
United Kingdom

Offline peter

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
  • Aadorf in Switzerland
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #28 on: 16.09. 2017 21:56 »
Hello colleagues,
this week I put the transmission together. I bought new axles bei de Groot. I found the gears on the Internet they were offered by John Shynn from Sutton on Sea GB, he had about 40 gears , 4 axles und some others parts offered, I took the opportunity and bought all! I drove with the Bike (Yamaha Virago) to England and took all the Parts ( round trip about 1700 km 5 days) John is a very friendly Biker, it was a nice meet.One day I stayed in Skegness a nice place at the seaside.
Today I did a test ride the gear work as they should everything is OK.
Greetings Peter

 
Good Advice
0
No reactions
1956 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
1956 AJS 18s
1949 Royal Enfield 500 J2
1954 Golden Flash 650
1985 Virago V1000
2001 Wildstar V1600
1966 Velosolex 50
1999 Virago XV 1100
2012 Kawasaki W800
2016 KTM Duke 390

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 32
    • BSA National
Re: Mainshaft gear separate from main shaft A10
« Reply #29 on: 17.09. 2017 08:15 »
When pressing or removing a pressed on gear, Warm the gear itself with a torch NOT TOO MUCH, but warm it and wrap the shaft with a towel soaked in COLD water, and it can change dimensions by several thou" and separate quite easily.  Same in reverse,  Heat in an oven the part you want to expand, and chill in the freezer what you want to minimize.
Gears and trans shafts especially are very fiddly so have seen a few items break or crack when being pressed or taken apart,
When manufactured they are (generally) made out of a high quality steel and inside is somewhat malleable and soft, but the exterior wear surfaces receive a heat treatment.  The depth of which varies.  BSA were also a metals company and in my view,, much of their materials WERE built to a price but tended to be pretty good stuff compared to Norton-AMC and others. 


Don't want to sound like I am picking on you but the max a 1 1/2"  steel gear can expand before undergoing a phase change is 0.0002" and that would be at dull red heat .
While the idea you propose is sound, the numbers are not.
Because stuff on the web persists for ever we should be careful to ensure what we print is factually correct .
When you heat the gear the gear does in fact expand and the tiny expansion is generally sufficient to break the bond between the oxide layers on the gear & the shaft which is what is locking them so tight together.
To get 0.002" difference the shaft would need to be in liquid nitrogen & the gear red hot.

Holding aluminium - silicon alloys at temperatures over 200 deg for extended times ages the alloy an promotes precipitation of complex silicon compounds with impurities, particularly iron at the grain boundry region rendering the casting stiff & brittle.
If you are going to heat it then on a flat surface strait up to 450F and cool quickly but do not quench.
 Quenching causes the casting to distort due to differential expansion between the hot & cold sections.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bike Beesa
Trevor