Author Topic: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)  (Read 373 times)

Online jachenbach

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In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« on: 02.08. 2017 18:16 »
For some reason I agreed to work on a 1976 Moto Guzzi 850 LeMans. Had I only done what owner initially wanted it would be long done and gone. He inherited it, and best he knew hadn't been serviced or ridden much in 5 years. I suggested we should at a minimum flush and bleed the brake system and new hoses would be a good idea. Replaced the hand brake master cylinder, which was leaking. Breaking hoses loose from the hard lines was a major pita. Finally got lines and hoses replaced and when I tried to bleed the front right caliper the bleeder screw snapped. Rear caliper bleeder are very tight and may wind up breaking as well. The most I've ever had to do with drum brakes is replace cables and brake shoes, clean and lube. Way cheaper, easier, and less time consuming. At the moment I'm not a big fan of disc brakes. I recall when hydraulic brakes were first being put on bikes a lot of the old timers weren't happy. No I remember why.  Ahhhhh, I feel better now after a good whine!

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #1 on: 02.08. 2017 19:11 »
Hi,
You have found the Guzzi (or Brembo) weak spot *problem*
The metal is very thin, as the thread is only 6mm
Two "cures"
Very carefully build up the sheared off nipple with spots of TIG weld allowing to solidify before adding another spot
once theres a good lump to get a grip onto use a vice grip to unscrew
Or
Drill out very carefully (just enough to remove the threads) and tap to 7mm x 1 , and fit 7mm nipples, Nissan use this size

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online jachenbach

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #2 on: 03.08. 2017 00:24 »
Excellent suggestion, which I will file in my memory bank. Balancing time it will take (I'm charging $50/hour) vs a replacement caliper ($105) and no guarantee of condition of seals, pistons, etc, in the old caliper, I just went ahead and ordered a replacement caliper. Very different working on my own bikes, where time is of no consequence but money is. Don't have a tig. I have a torch and a budget mig, neither of which I'm particularly skilled with. Good to know the thread size pitch on the Nissin. Only potential pitfall I can see is damaging the seat, but with care it wouldn't seem to be difficult to rethread it with a bottom tap.

Online duTch

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #3 on: 03.08. 2017 02:07 »

 At least they have a ready-made pilot hole, and the tip should break off and fall out when the thread is gone *smile*
 I broke a couple of those many years ago- note to self to check them again *ex*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online cyclobutch

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #4 on: 03.08. 2017 08:33 »
But then Guzzi linked brakes are the best thing ever. Way ahead even of ABS.
Various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Online jachenbach

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #5 on: 04.08. 2017 17:21 »
None of my Guzzis (Quota, Stone, V11 LeMans) has had linked brakes, so don't know if I'd like them. Wouldn't have wanted them when I lived on a steep gravel road. I've gotten so dependent on the front brake over the years that I don't use the foot brake a lot. I suppose I'd get used to it with practice.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #6 on: 04.08. 2017 22:18 »
Hi All,
I bought a T3 in about 2001/2, it rode ok.ish but needed a lot of TLC
I spent quite a while sorting it all out, but  the brakes I found poor!!!
rebuilt calipers and master cylinders, new braided lines and so on but still disappointing brakes
On a tour in Scotland two up and heavily laden it scared me coming down a very steep mountain road *eek*
6k rpm in first gear throttle shut and brakes full on  *pull hair out* and still running out of road *problem*

When I got home I went and procured a couple of 4 pot calipers (ex GSXR?) and made up some mountings to fit them behind the fork legs, I removed the linking pipework and fitted a suitable front master cylinder  *work*
Decent brakes at last  *good3*
A friend now owns the guzzi and I look at it longingly every time  see it *sad2*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online cyclobutch

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #7 on: 07.08. 2017 09:45 »
Hi All,
I bought a T3 in about 2001/2, it rode ok.ish but needed a lot of TLC
I spent quite a while sorting it all out, but  the brakes I found poor!!!
rebuilt calipers and master cylinders, new braided lines and so on but still disappointing brakes
On a tour in Scotland two up and heavily laden it scared me coming down a very steep mountain road *eek*
6k rpm in first gear throttle shut and brakes full on  *pull hair out* and still running out of road *problem*

When I got home I went and procured a couple of 4 pot calipers (ex GSXR?) and made up some mountings to fit them behind the fork legs, I removed the linking pipework and fitted a suitable front master cylinder  *work*
Decent brakes at last  *good3*
A friend now owns the guzzi and I look at it longingly every time  see it *sad2*

John

Odd - I rarely even feel the need to touch the lever for the front on either my T3 or my V50.
 
Various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Online Black Sheep

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #8 on: 07.08. 2017 10:10 »
The T3 we had had excellent brakes, more than powerful enough on any hill 2 up and loaded with camping gear. It was the electrics that drove me to despair.
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #9 on: 07.08. 2017 21:32 »
Hi All,
I redid all the wiring connections when doing the spruce up on it
All new spade connectors and simplified the wiring somewhat by using the LH switchgear from an Aprillia
While on a run earlier this year my friend had some starting troubles with it
It turned out the Yamaha RH kill switch had corroded  *sad2*
I told him the guarantee was well out  after 15 years *contract*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online jachenbach

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #10 on: 08.08. 2017 14:13 »
I've long suspected that people who complain about Lucas electrics have never owned an old Italian bike........

Online KiwiGF

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #11 on: 09.08. 2017 00:40 »
I've long suspected that people who complain about Lucas electrics have never owned an old Italian bike........

I did complain back then but did own a Benelli Sei with its Christmas cracker quality level of switches and fuse boxes etc. it's Bosch alternator was ok but it had difficulty getting its plentiful power to where it was actually needed  *conf*

In the seventies in the uk it was common to order a new Italian bike (benelli, moto guzzi, laverda, Ducati) and ask the dealer to fit japanese switch gear to it before delivery. It was also common to order a new japanese bike with the tyres swapped to a known brand (oem Bridgestone were lethal back then) and also get them with a 4:1 exhaust (as the original would rust out within a year).

Things have changed since then........
New Zealand

Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one.

1956 Flash Frame EA7-168x Eng. CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

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GL1800 Goldwing not sure why yet

Online duTch

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #12 on: 09.08. 2017 02:33 »

 My input for mechanical (not 'Meccano' as spell-check suggested) brakes as the topic suggests *smile*;

 My T model has a TLS on the rear and works fine, only redid the shoes about ten years ago (less than half use since the  Beeza back on the road).
 When I bought it in '92, the disc (or is it a disk? ) on front was worn thin and out of shape, so I fitted two Kwakka 9/H3/4 discs that almost fitted...never good bit got me through a tight spot.

 The electrics have always been reasonable-ish but after last time the lights went out one rainy night on a country road not too far from home, I replaced the fuse box with a Hella six-slot blade fuse item and apart from one jumping ship coming dusk half way into a 600K trip generally no probs. ...kinda- but that's another story  *eek*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online cyclobutch

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #13 on: 09.08. 2017 11:23 »
Amusing topical drift on this one.

. Still running the original logo block switches on my V50, albeit I've long since bypassed the kill switch.

. Currently in dialogue with these folks for having some tune breathed into my Bantam engine;

    https://www.lambrettaspares.com/

Who would have thought?
Various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Online duTch

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Re: In praise of mechanical brakes (not BSA)
« Reply #14 on: 09.08. 2017 11:32 »

 
Quote
. Currently in dialogue with these folks for having some tune breathed into my Bantam engine;

    https://www.lambrettaspares.com/

Who would have thought?

 now that is going waaaayyyy/whheeeeeyyy off topic you ol' closet mod    *smile*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia