Author Topic: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)  (Read 1159 times)

Offline gpo746

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1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« on: 19.10. 2017 19:22 »
Firstly, I would like to say hello to everyone  *smile*.
I have just purchased a 1954 A7 (SS) and wanted to know if this center stand would fit :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Centre-Stand-BSA-B31-B33-DBD-GOLDSTAR-SWINGI-Swinging-Arm-42-4719-/142540393442?hash=item213011cbe2:g:lnQAAOSww9xZJes5
The distance inside lug to lug is 4" . I think 42-4725 is the correct one but seeing they are very hard to come by I wondered if the eBay one would fit even though the advertised part number is 42-4719 . I think the stands are made in India and wondered if anyone had experience with these and if they were any good or not.
My "Bike" ...rather box of bits with a frame .. has lots missing  *sad2*

Online JulianS

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #1 on: 19.10. 2017 20:17 »
It should fit BUT the twin stand has an extension which projects past the clutch side silencer allowing a foot to be placed on it to assist raising onto the stand. With the single stand less extension it is not quite as simple due to position of silencer.

Offline gpo746

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #2 on: 19.10. 2017 22:32 »
It should fit BUT the twin stand has an extension which projects past the clutch side silencer allowing a foot to be placed on it to assist raising onto the stand. With the single stand less extension it is not quite as simple due to position of silencer.
Thanks JulianS , I might hold out for the proper one if the one I pointed out isn't really suitable.

Online JulianS

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #3 on: 20.10. 2017 09:15 »
They can be expensive;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A10-A7-B31-33-SWING-ARM-CENTER-STAND-ROCKET-GOLD-FLASH-STAR-RGS-PROJECT-/361807170079?hash=item543d634a1f:g:0pcAAOSwo4pYGOJM


Whist you are waiting it is worth carefully inspecting the frame cross tube on which the stand bears - not unusual to find it damaged after years of being pulled onto the stand.

Online chaterlea25

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #4 on: 20.10. 2017 20:02 »
Hi gpo,
Whether the stand would fit or not depends on the frame mounting lugs?
The lugs for the stand in the links are different to other/later A or B frames
Attached pic is of the lugs for the forged stand, a reinforcing half tube fits between the lugs and is welded to the frame cross tube to act as stops for the stand
A friend sent me this pic from USA

The original stand was made from two parts, in the second link the stand weld can seen to be cracked which is common *warn*
I would be sceptical of the quality of the imported stand??
Autocycle Engineering had new stands made in UK the last time I was there (1 piece construction)

I have just spent a lot of time making new frame lugs and reinforcing piece for my 54/5 B31 frame
along with repairing /re bushing the stand, (its going to be a "Goldie" Special *work* )

John

1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline gpo746

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #5 on: 20.10. 2017 20:17 »
Hi gpo,
Whether the stand would fit or not depends on the frame mounting lugs?
The lugs for the stand in the links are different to other/later A or B frames
Attached pic is of the lugs for the forged stand, a reinforcing half tube fits between the lugs and is welded to the frame cross tube to act as stops for the stand
A friend sent me this pic from USA

The original stand was made from two parts, in the second link the stand weld can seen to be cracked which is common *warn*
I would be sceptical of the quality of the imported stand??
Autocycle Engineering had new stands made in UK the last time I was there (1 piece construction)

I have just spent a lot of time making new frame lugs and reinforcing piece for my 54/5 B31 frame
along with repairing /re bushing the stand, (its going to be a "Goldie" Special *work* )

John

Hi John,
             Many Thanks for the info and the picture. They are the same rounded lugs I have on my frame. I found a seller on ebay selling the Indian made B31 stand OEM equiv 42-4719
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-B31-B32-B33-B33-DBD-GOLDSTAR-SWINGING-ARM-MODEL-BLACK-CENTER-STAND-DE-/152738784424?hash=item238ff0e4a8:g:j1YAAOSwVGhZgBzo
However, I do NOT think it will fit as the seller gives the distance between the lugs as 3/12" and the distance between my lugs is 4" So, clearly there is a mismatch just there.
Begs the question if the A7 stands are that rare why someone is not knocking them out somewhere. I have a Royal Enfield Bullet 350 and the build quality is quite good really. The center stand is solid and works well so, I would be open minded to an import ...on the other hand I have seen one site that has removed side stands because of bad batch issues ...
Thanks from Dom

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #6 on: 20.10. 2017 20:30 »
Hi Dom,
That stand has the rough appearance of cast (iron?)
It also does not have the sleeve that goes through the pivot

Just think of the damage that can happen if the bike falls when the stand fails *problem* *problem*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline gpo746

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #7 on: 20.10. 2017 22:06 »
Hi Dom,
That stand has the rough appearance of cast (iron?)
It also does not have the sleeve that goes through the pivot

Just think of the damage that can happen if the bike falls when the stand fails *problem* *problem*

John

Quite, That is why I think I might bite the bullet(proverbial...not my other bike) and try find a decent second hand one. Do the lugs on the frame look ok to you? standard ones etc?

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #8 on: 21.10. 2017 13:09 »
Hi Dom,
From your photo It looks like the frame lugs have been changed/modified at some stage They look parallel sided not tapered as in the pic I posted above..
The frame you have is missing the half tube reinforcing that the stand stops sit against.
The way the tube was fitted originally allowed water to get trapped between the parts as it was only welded on its ends to the lugs and not along its length
The lugs I made are heavier and wider than the originals *work* the should last several lifetimes *????* *????*
Some pics of the work so far, The whole lot needs to be on its wheels so the stand stops can be "adjusted" so the stand folds up and down to the correct angles (You can see the weld a PO snotted onto the stand stops *eek*)

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #9 on: 21.10. 2017 16:13 »
Begs the question if the A7 stands are that rare why someone is not knocking them out somewhere.

Dom,

Right off, I can think of three or four members who could answer this question in more accurate detail, but I'm going to give it a try, having (just now) brushed-up on forging.

First, you need a forging press. I'm just guessing, but maybe with around 1000 tons of force. Then, you need machined dies for the closed-die process. It may require more than one set of dies for progessive forming. Then, you need a forge in which to heat the iron billet. Then, of course, you need the people to run the process. I believe BSA had all these facilites in-house and produced each part by the thousands (or tens of thousands?) to justify the costs. Sticking my neck out, I will guess about $40K (I could be wildly off in either direction, but I like guessing prices) in design, die machining  and forge setup charges just to get started FOR ONE STYLE from an established shop. Then there is the actual cost of labor, materials and marketing, not to mention profit. So, maybe it works if you can sell 1000 at $300/ea.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline gpo746

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #10 on: 21.10. 2017 18:22 »
Yeah, I suppose thats why they are not on the market then *eek* *smile*!

Offline gpo746

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #11 on: 21.10. 2017 18:34 »
Hi Dom,
From your photo It looks like the frame lugs have been changed/modified at some stage They look parallel sided not tapered as in the pic I posted above..
The frame you have is missing the half tube reinforcing that the stand stops sit against.
The way the tube was fitted originally allowed water to get trapped between the parts as it was only welded on its ends to the lugs and not along its length
The lugs I made are heavier and wider than the originals *work* the should last several lifetimes *????* *????*
Some pics of the work so far, The whole lot needs to be on its wheels so the stand stops can be "adjusted" so the stand folds up and down to the correct angles (You can see the weld a PO snotted onto the stand stops *eek*)

John

Hello John, That looks like a good idea. I might go rob some 3/8" steel off my neigbour . I have been looking through the boxes of bits and I have found a center stand complete section someone has cut out a frame . So, maybe a PO has realised and got one from somewhere. Would this one be ok to use? I could possibly cut slug and weld the "New" section into the frame... Thoughts?

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #12 on: 21.10. 2017 19:17 »
Those lugs are for the later stand, used 1958 on, in my view a better stand altogether.

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #13 on: 21.10. 2017 20:54 »
Hi Dom,
Quote
Would this one be ok to use? I could possibly cut slug and weld the "New" section into the frame... Thoughts?
Well if it was me I would not go down that route  *ex*
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: 1954 Center Stand question (new member)
« Reply #14 on: 21.10. 2017 22:38 »
Which ever route you choose finding a good centre stand remains a significant issue.

Be prepared to pay a good price for a quality item.

Recenly a new old stock 1954 type went for  £246 plus £15 postage on E bay.
 
I recently bought a new old stock ( having already tried a new pattrn one and found it poor quality) late type from USA which cost £130 plus post plus customs duty.