Author Topic: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers  (Read 1828 times)

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #15 on: 02.11. 2017 12:14 »
Bike speedos work really well with the only exception that they are made for healthy young eyes to look at so the black digits on a grey background can be a touch hard to see.
The LCD displays will just turn black if they get too hot and while thy will revert when cooler it is a good idea to pop something over them if they are going to be left in the sunlight for extended periods.
While you are there, a Tiny Tach will add a tacho & hour meter, again with small numerals but dead easy to fit and about £ 20 a steal.
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Offline Topdad

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #16 on: 02.11. 2017 12:57 »
Proir to fitting the Indian speedo i was using a magnetic one, was 20 5 at to fast and no way as stable I've got it on a shelf if you like to try it ?
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Offline Sluggo

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #17 on: 02.11. 2017 18:46 »
I had not considered you might have a nacelle (BSA type) but if thats the case, and you are on a budget then at that price point (And assuming you can get a cable to fit) then I would consider rolling the dice on one of the Indian ones.

I have a friend in India and he claims he was the leading manufacturer of replica instruments and some years back others noticed he was successful and started making their own.  He gave up on making them as the market got flooded so my belief is its just hard to figure out which are a decent quality and which are not.

But as I said, and failed to properly illustrate, is that some really nice looking (And performing) replicas are being made now.  I have a grey face and a black face set somewhere in storage still in boxs I bought for some projects where original is not important.  I get them wholesale and am not going to post the prices here but the retail on them is very affordable and like I said, I sell a fair number of them over the years and no complaints.  The ones on the Triumph  I took a picture of were an earlier version and those were fitted about 10 years ago and were owned by an old guy who puttered about but not extensive mileage (I bought the bike back from him when his health was failing)

Here is a picture of the current repops,, I understand there is some with a Chrono style face but internally are magnetic.   See: http://jrcengineering.com/product/ssm500106/

This is the tacho (Again grey face) See: http://jrcengineering.com/product/rsm300301/

I rarely deal with the public as a shop anymore (No thank you!  *countdown*) But I still have most of my dealer accts.  So, seeing as you are in the UK I dont think its practical to try and peddle you any parts, and these are readily available thru a variety of UK based dealers.

But as a shop it used to annoy the heck out of me how many calls I used to get asking for "A decent used set of instruments" or "Used speedo drive".  Nobody wanted to pay the cost of new replacements and so when these replicas came out, It was a good option for those who did not want to pay the cost for new or rebuilt originals.  Lots of people wanted to swap out their rusty rims for a "Nice used set with good chrome" as well.   *problem*  So Cheap Basta........ Oops, I mean economy conscious consumers  I feel your pain but
it made it hard to run a business.   

heres a set on US ebay of Chrono replicas (Speedo and tach) and if fitted in some sort of cups they look pretty good but as I said, from the side or back they look like cheap knock offs..(but for a bitsa custom who cares if you can cover up the ugly part?) These are located IN the UK --seller
See: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Chronometric-120-Mph-Speedometer-And-Revcounter-Smiths-Replica-Items/112515524760?hash=item1a3272a898:g:aIUAAOSwtPhZiYr0&vxp=mtr

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Online Rex

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #18 on: 02.11. 2017 20:31 »
The speedo is identical to the twenty quid items seen all over Ebay.
The "UK seller" is just a postal address or agent for the Indian maker. They do fit in A10 nacelles even with the added depth of the case.
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Offline gpo746

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #19 on: 02.11. 2017 22:10 »
I had not considered you might have a nacelle (BSA type) but if thats the case, and you are on a budget then at that price point (And assuming you can get a cable to fit) then I would consider rolling the dice on one of the Indian ones.

I have a friend in India and he claims he was the leading manufacturer of replica instruments and some years back others noticed he was successful and started making their own.  He gave up on making them as the market got flooded so my belief is its just hard to figure out which are a decent quality and which are not.

But as I said, and failed to properly illustrate, is that some really nice looking (And performing) replicas are being made now.  I have a grey face and a black face set somewhere in storage still in boxs I bought for some projects where original is not important.  I get them wholesale and am not going to post the prices here but the retail on them is very affordable and like I said, I sell a fair number of them over the years and no complaints.  The ones on the Triumph  I took a picture of were an earlier version and those were fitted about 10 years ago and were owned by an old guy who puttered about but not extensive mileage (I bought the bike back from him when his health was failing)

Here is a picture of the current repops,, I understand there is some with a Chrono style face but internally are magnetic.   See: http://jrcengineering.com/product/ssm500106/

This is the tacho (Again grey face) See: http://jrcengineering.com/product/rsm300301/

I rarely deal with the public as a shop anymore (No thank you!  *countdown*) But I still have most of my dealer accts.  So, seeing as you are in the UK I dont think its practical to try and peddle you any parts, and these are readily available thru a variety of UK based dealers.

But as a shop it used to annoy the heck out of me how many calls I used to get asking for "A decent used set of instruments" or "Used speedo drive".  Nobody wanted to pay the cost of new replacements and so when these replicas came out, It was a good option for those who did not want to pay the cost for new or rebuilt originals.  Lots of people wanted to swap out their rusty rims for a "Nice used set with good chrome" as well.   *problem*  So Cheap Basta........ Oops, I mean economy conscious consumers  I feel your pain but
it made it hard to run a business.   

heres a set on US ebay of Chrono replicas (Speedo and tach) and if fitted in some sort of cups they look pretty good but as I said, from the side or back they look like cheap knock offs..(but for a bitsa custom who cares if you can cover up the ugly part?) These are located IN the UK --seller
See: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Chronometric-120-Mph-Speedometer-And-Revcounter-Smiths-Replica-Items/112515524760?hash=item1a3272a898:g:aIUAAOSwtPhZiYr0&vxp=mtr

Hi Sluggo,
               Defo on a budget! . I have had the good grey faced repro's before for another bike I used to own . My main concern was getting the right ratio speedo to match the gearbox.I can make or buy a cable that is not an issue.  I know what you mean about dealing with the public !! ...nightmare! and yeah, my neighbour has just paid out for new spokes plus a used pitted rim and rebuild cost for his B31 ..there was only £50 difference in having a brand new chrome rim ...as I said I am on a budget ..not a bodget !.Strange thing is none of the ebay sellers list the ratio of the speedos. Someone said the gearbox was 1:83 to 1 , I dont know how accurate this is. I thank you for you input on this.
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Offline gpo746

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #20 on: 02.11. 2017 22:11 »
The speedo is identical to the twenty quid items seen all over Ebay.
The "UK seller" is just a postal address or agent for the Indian maker. They do fit in A10 nacelles even with the added depth of the case.
Hi Rex, thanks..It is nice to know that it will fit in the nacelle!
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Offline Sluggo

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #21 on: 02.11. 2017 22:29 »
The ratio SHOULD be in the factory manual, have not looked it up on a A10, And wondering about the prunit single gearboxs as well as I have a few BSA Singles as well to deal with.

I DO know that BSA was the king of gearing ratios both in the box and primary and then to some degree final drive.  Trials, wide ratio, close ratio,  Then on the primaries as well. I have most of the service sheets and literature but its a lot of data to sort thru.

Be nice if all the gearbox speedo ratios were the same but I doubt it.   I like the speedo drives off the box for early Triumphs as well,, always has lube and far less problems than the rear wheel drive boxs they went to.   I have some smiths catalogs and literature as well If you cant find it.

Your inquiry was timely as I am in the midst of inventory and organizing and figuring what I got and dont and making up a "Wish List" is my long running current project.  So,, much of my speedo and tach stuff was accessible hence the pictures.
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Remember that any advice received on a free internet forum is generally worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it.
We overcharge every 3rd customer to pass the savings onto you.
You can have High Quality, Low price, and fast turnaround. Pick any 2, Never all 3 at the same time.

Online JulianS

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #22 on: 03.11. 2017 08:41 »
The chronometric speedos usually have a figure on the face - 1450 on my A10 - which is the number of cable revs per mile to which it is calibrated. It is found just below the needle pivot.

On the A10, given standard rim and tyre, it depends on gearbox and rear wheel sprocket, sleeve gear and fixed layshaft gear tooth number and the speedo driving gear on layshaft and driven gear in gearbox cover.

It does not easily translate to a simple speedo head ratio so I think you are down to experimentation to see how well it works.

I have not seen a BSA service sheet or bulletin on this, Triumph were more helpful with the early unit 650 and explained it for their bikes on Tech Service Bulletin 11 if you have a copy.
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #23 on: 03.11. 2017 09:27 »
It may be worth talking to Russel at Chronomentric Services, http://www.chronometrics.co.uk. He's very friendly and it's possible he may be able to help you. If nothing else he may be able to measure your speedo drive output so you know what to look for.

I got Russel to recalibrate my speedo after I changed the drive ratios on my bike. Unfortunatley this leaves the odometer innacurate but that's not really important.
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Online KiwiGF

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #24 on: 03.11. 2017 10:44 »
I had not considered you might have a nacelle (BSA type) but if thats the case, and you are on a budget then at that price point (And assuming you can get a cable to fit) then I would consider rolling the dice on one of the Indian ones.

I have a friend in India and he claims he was the leading manufacturer of replica instruments and some years back others noticed he was successful and started making their own.  He gave up on making them as the market got flooded so my belief is its just hard to figure out which are a decent quality and which are not.

But as I said, and failed to properly illustrate, is that some really nice looking (And performing) replicas are being made now.  I have a grey face and a black face set somewhere in storage still in boxs I bought for some projects where original is not important.  I get them wholesale and am not going to post the prices here but the retail on them is very affordable and like I said, I sell a fair number of them over the years and no complaints.  The ones on the Triumph  I took a picture of were an earlier version and those were fitted about 10 years ago and were owned by an old guy who puttered about but not extensive mileage (I bought the bike back from him when his health was failing)

Here is a picture of the current repops,, I understand there is some with a Chrono style face but internally are magnetic.   See: http://jrcengineering.com/product/ssm500106/

This is the tacho (Again grey face) See: http://jrcengineering.com/product/rsm300301/

I rarely deal with the public as a shop anymore (No thank you!  *countdown*) But I still have most of my dealer accts.  So, seeing as you are in the UK I dont think its practical to try and peddle you any parts, and these are readily available thru a variety of UK based dealers.

But as a shop it used to annoy the heck out of me how many calls I used to get asking for "A decent used set of instruments" or "Used speedo drive".  Nobody wanted to pay the cost of new replacements and so when these replicas came out, It was a good option for those who did not want to pay the cost for new or rebuilt originals.  Lots of people wanted to swap out their rusty rims for a "Nice used set with good chrome" as well.   *problem*  So Cheap Basta........ Oops, I mean economy conscious consumers  I feel your pain but
it made it hard to run a business.   

heres a set on US ebay of Chrono replicas (Speedo and tach) and if fitted in some sort of cups they look pretty good but as I said, from the side or back they look like cheap knock offs..(but for a bitsa custom who cares if you can cover up the ugly part?) These are located IN the UK --seller
See: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Chronometric-120-Mph-Speedometer-And-Revcounter-Smiths-Replica-Items/112515524760?hash=item1a3272a898:g:aIUAAOSwtPhZiYr0&vxp=mtr

Hi Sluggo,
               Defo on a budget! . I have had the good grey faced repro's before for another bike I used to own . My main concern was getting the right ratio speedo to match the gearbox.I can make or buy a cable that is not an issue.  I know what you mean about dealing with the public !! ...nightmare! and yeah, my neighbour has just paid out for new spokes plus a used pitted rim and rebuild cost for his B31 ..there was only £50 difference in having a brand new chrome rim ...as I said I am on a budget ..not a bodget !.Strange thing is none of the ebay sellers list the ratio of the speedos. Someone said the gearbox was 1:83 to 1 , I dont know how accurate this is. I thank you for you input on this.

From memory the 1.83 ratio is correct, also being 11 turns of the back wheel to 6 of the cable. This only gets changed if non std sprockets are used, which is why changing the engine sprocket is generally used to alter gearing. It's not hard to check this ratio.

The calc for the chronometric revs per mile figure is something like 5280/6.8 x 11/6 = 1420 revs per mile (approx)

Where 5280 is the number of feet in a mile
6.8 is the circumference in feet of a 19 inch wheel with 3.5 inch tyre (my estimate.....)

I think there are other threads with more accurate figures for wheel circumference than I've given.....I'm sure someone can give better figures!
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Online RichardL

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #25 on: 03.11. 2017 19:07 »
Here's a post I made when I was a boy in knee pants. It includes arithmetic to determine what radius is needed between axle and ground for a "1440" speedo to read properly.

 https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=701.msg4399#msg4399

Richard L.
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Offline duTch

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #26 on: 03.11. 2017 21:00 »

 The speedo drive gears are different for RR,RRT, and RRT2 boxes, can't remember the teeth numbers but think is 10 & 7 (written down somewhere). the other boxes have the 11/6 ratio as ^above^ ( P#'s listed in the Haynes manual Page 70)..

 I used the make a mark on the wheel (@ valve stem is handy) and ground and roll the bike/wheels to determine the circumference ( I call rolling diameter and but did it in meters ), and then think I used Richards method ...
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Offline gpo746

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Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #27 on: 04.11. 2017 11:06 »
Here's a post I made when I was a boy in knee pants. It includes arithmetic to determine what radius is needed between axle and ground for a "1440" speedo to read properly.

 https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=701.msg4399#msg4399

Richard L.

Hi Richard, thanks...where the a7 is concerned I am still in nappies !.
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