Author Topic: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter  (Read 2846 times)

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #15 on: 06.11. 2017 22:07 »
Hi All,
Quote
An external filter is always something else that can go wrong. Trust me on that.

Having fitted external filters on many different bikes since the late 70's, I have never had an issue with them

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #16 on: 06.11. 2017 22:10 »
Am I right to assume that having fitted one of these modern inline filters in the return pipe, I no longer need the felt filter that was in the tank? Mine has been eaten by mice in the years that the bike has been sitting in my garage, so if I don't need it that will be one less thing to buy  *smiley4*.

Thanks - Rowan

Confusing stuff.

Is there actually no felt filter on the return within the twin oil tank, as is used on the M series?

Online orabanda

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #17 on: 06.11. 2017 23:30 »
The in-tank filter is more of a strainer; the mesh size will be around 150 - 200 micron. It is designed to stop the big bits (those you can see) from causing catastrophic failure in the pump. The return filter you would be wise to add has a rating of around 10 micron. If you have good eyesight (probably none of us do- too old) the smallest object visible is 40 micron; a human hair is around 75 micron (same as the edge of a piece of paper).

Wear occurs rapidly when the oil contains particles which are same size or smaller than your bearing  clearances, which is why you need the return filter

Offline Sluggo

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #18 on: 06.11. 2017 23:39 »
The Enfields are the only production british MC I am aware of that had a filter on the pressure side, and they were not known for reliable oiling,. Guzzis have on some models problems with the filter on the feedside starving the engine of oil so I believe their mod using a larger sump and external filter is a brilliant idea
(Mines a 1976 850T).

But I have never seen any british bikes with a felt filter in the tank or feed,  There is a mod for Oil in the Frame BSA & Triumphs that used a car fuel filter I believe More a strainer) but that was not stock for 71 on OIF bikes...

I wrote a lot here and other forums about external filters and dont care to repeat it, but I have some suggestions worth reading (or not....... *eek*) on what types of filters to use, But Ill blather on and say with modern Multi grade oils you SHOULD run a filter.

You should be able to find it using the search function.
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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #19 on: 07.11. 2017 06:33 »
Quote from: Sluggo
But I have never seen any british bikes with a felt filter in the tank or feed

My 1955 plunger BSA M33 had a felt filter in the tank, on the return. So had my 1955 AJS. Velocettes and Vincent’s had one somewhere in the system too.

Online orabanda

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #20 on: 07.11. 2017 06:41 »
Pretty confident that the Matchless / AJS singles had a felt element in the tank as well

Offline Sluggo

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #21 on: 07.11. 2017 06:53 »
Quote from: Sluggo
But I have never seen any british bikes with a felt filter in the tank or feed

My 1955 plunger BSA M33 had a felt filter in the tank, on the return. So had my 1955 AJS. Velocettes and Vincent’s had one somewhere in the system too.

Good to know, I will keep an eye out on some of my BSA singles, I have a late 40s BSA B33 and some Goldies (49-57) and sooner or later I have a 32 Blue star sitting in the UK I hope to see sometime soon. 

I am also assisting a younger guy with his Vincent Rapide project but I am sure he is ahead of me on this,, I dont have much Vinnie knowledge.  I would not have a lot of faith on any oil system with a felt filter in place.

On a tangent,, I used to make fun of these (Frantz Oil filters) as they use a roll of toilet paper as a filter.  Typical old gimmick type product seen in ads in magazines.  I saw some farm vehicles growing up with these fitted but as I said,, I used to laugh at the idea.  I got yelled at for doing so in aviation mechanics school by the instructor as he felt very strongly they were an excellent device.  (Not suitable for acft tho..) So, he showed me some tech materials and test reports that showed very effective filtration.  So, amusing as they are.. they DO actually work well, but I cannot see fitting one on a vintage bike.  (Well, Maybe a Harley  *whistle*)


(But I DO fit a return line filter too ALL my classic bikes)

See: http://www.frantzfilters.com/

The modern version of the company is a totally different animal from the original frantz products from the 60s-80s) and much more expensive,.. But its still a hot topic on many forums still today.
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Offline duTch

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #22 on: 07.11. 2017 11:28 »
.......... Guzzis have on some models problems with the filter on the feedside starving the engine of oil so I believe their mod using a larger sump and external filter is a brilliant idea
(Mines a 1976 850T).
......................

 Interesting this should come up. I like the idea, but is even more tricky (requires major surgery), than adding a filter to the Beeza....The strainer in the bottom of my (August '74) Model T fell apart a couple of years ago, and I don't like the look of the on-line replacements (may keep chooks, dogs and small kids out but no smaller *eek*), so sourced some 100 mesh Stainless, and have just today been fabricating it into shape. (I wanted Brass as was the original - in ~40 mesh-, because it'd be easy to solder together, but SS was easier to find)...
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #23 on: 07.11. 2017 13:35 »
I think the mouse eaten felt filter (see pic) may have been intended for my M21 (long since deceased). As all of you have said, it seems, looking at the spares available, that the A10 requires a plain mesh stainless steel or brass filter mesh in the tank. I will fit one of those.

Thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #24 on: 07.11. 2017 19:19 »
Any views on which of these is best?
Assuming that the cartridges are all pretty similar, they all look much the same (except for the price) so unless anyone has a good reason not to, I suppose I will use the £23.95 one.

Have you used any of these? How did the project go? Did the filter work well? Were there any problems or difficulties?

Many thanks for your advice.

Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Online JulianS

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #25 on: 07.11. 2017 19:29 »
I like the Morgo. Nice and compact. Photo shows one fitted to my rather dirty A10.

Offline t20racerman

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #26 on: 07.11. 2017 19:35 »
I fitted the Norton Commando type to my A10 about 30 odd years ago. Seems to have done the job. I don't have a centre stand so mounted mine by wrapping the filter in an old inner tube and cable tying it to the frame tube between the (broken off) centre stand mounts. This was a 'temporary' solution back in the day..... But it works & I've kept it there for 30 years! 😁

The filter you need for the Norton type filter mount is the Citroën 2CV one - now obsolete with many suppliers. My local Motor Factors gets me one within 24 hours though.
1961 A10 - somewhat modified :-)
1980 TZ350 - lunatic Classic Race machine
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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #27 on: 07.11. 2017 19:51 »
Any views on which of these is best?

1) The Norton Commando type with Champion filter cartridge, from https://www.ebay.com/itm/Remote-oil-filter-kit-suits-classic-BSA-A7-A10-A50-A65-Motorcycles-/331764146537, cost £23.95.
Have you used any of these? How did the project go? Did the filter work well? Were there any problems or difficulties?

This is what I fitted on my Plungie.

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #28 on: 07.11. 2017 21:32 »
Any views on which of these is best?

1) The Norton Commando type with Champion filter cartridge, from https://www.ebay.com/itm/Remote-oil-filter-kit-suits-classic-BSA-A7-A10-A50-A65-Motorcycles-/331764146537, cost £23.95.
Have you used any of these? How did the project go? Did the filter work well? Were there any problems or difficulties?

The pics I posted up are of a commando type filter, obviously I made up a bracket to suit the fact it has two mounting holes on top (or rather on the side, in my case). The bracket (neatly I think) covers the inlet/outlets up, and the inlets/outlets face towards the rear of the bike, so the oil pipes can then stick to their normal routing under the gearbox.

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Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Oil system Q1: Adding an oil filter
« Reply #29 on: 07.11. 2017 22:08 »
G'Day Rowan,
I recently fitted the 23.95 option, decided after the painting was finished unfortunately. Bought from Paul Goff - NORBSA Website. The Swing Arm toolbox is wider than the earlier ones, so the filter will fit in the toolbox. I wanted to keep the Lucas Regulator, so had a problem squeezing the hoses past it and the mudguard. I cut off part of the Lucas MCR2 Regulator rear mounting lug so I could get 2 hoses through, and cut a rough oval hole through the dividing plate to let the second hose through. Paul provided an EMGO filter which is about 10mm shorter than the very old Tecalmit filter I installed (which is a bit of a squeeze). It came from Shadowfax about 25 years ago. I modified the bracket he supplied, but could not get the filter quite vertical, which would give more removal clearance for a longer filter. The photos show the details. I also flared the smooth tubes on the Filter mounting head. Separate photo later. I was concerned that the hoses may slip off if you don't flare the tubes. I haven't got the bike on the road yet, but the oil circulates a treat.!
Cheers
Colin
Colsbeeza
Australia