Author Topic: Renovating Super Rocket Seat  (Read 1029 times)

Offline rowan.bradley

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Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« on: 17.11. 2017 12:48 »
I need to renovate my Super Rocket dual seat. I'm thinking that I need a new cover, and probably a new foam pad, but will use the existing base plate after cleaning it up and painting it.

Does anyone have any experience of doing this, and learning points?

Who sells the best covers, and at what price?

What type(s) of foam do I need, and where do I buy it?

How do I best cut the foam and sculpt it to the correct shape?

How much bigger does the foam need to be than the finished seat (I'm assuming that the foam needs to be compressed at least a bit into the cover to keep everything nice and taut).

Is there anything else that I need to think about, or do?

Many thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Online Billybream

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #1 on: 17.11. 2017 14:04 »
There's  a company in Birmingham called Leightons, who can help.
I took my Super Rocket seat there and they shot blasted the frame and painted and used new form but I was keen to retain the patina of the cover which was reused.
Great job all round and very reasonable cost.
They supply DIY kits but the difficulty will be getting the correct one.
1960 Super Rocket, owned since 1966, back on the road 2012 after being laid up for 29yrs.

Offline A10 JWO

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #2 on: 17.11. 2017 17:43 »
Indeed R K Leightons, they have been on television, real quality, some say better than new. Advertise in OBM. Regards.

Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #3 on: 17.11. 2017 18:07 »
Thank you for suggesting Leightons, who I was not aware of. I have written to them and we will see what they can offer.

Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Offline jachenbach

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #4 on: 18.11. 2017 13:38 »
I built one from scratch starting with just the base. Foam is most easily formed with an electric knife, then smoothed with a coarse sanding disc. I use marine vinyl for the covers. Welt is made by wrapping a strip of vinyl around an appropriately sized piece of string and sewing tight against the string. The biggest obstacle I've found is getting foam of a proper density. If there is a motorcycle salvage yard in your area, you may be able to get a seat from another model bike with a larger seat and use the foam from it.

Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #5 on: 18.11. 2017 17:22 »
Foam is most easily formed with an electric knife, then smoothed with a coarse sanding disc.
By "electric knife" do you mean an electric carving knife (the sort that has two blades next to each other that move backwards and forwards in opposite directions driven by a battery)? That works well? Interesting. I would not have thought of that.

Neither would I have thought of using a sanding disc to fine tune the shape. That works well does it?

What sort of foam were you crafting using these techniques?

I have a foam stockist near me who seems to have every imaginable grade of foam. I am assuming that he won't have trouble supplying the right grade(s) of foam.

Am I right to think that the bottom of the seat pad should be made from pretty firm foam, so there is little chance of one's bottom hitting the seat base, but that there should be a layer of softer foam above this? This implies at least two different grades of foam. I wonder what the thicknesses of firm foam and soft foam ought to be? And I wonder how much larger one should make the pad than the cover, to get it nice and tight?

And should the foam be open cell or closed cell?

I get the feeling that this may involve some amount of experimentation before I get it right... But at least I don't have to strip the engine down every time...

Thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Offline RichardL

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #6 on: 18.11. 2017 18:37 »
Rowan,

First, you (and others) may find it amusing where I sourced the foam for my seat rebuild. My former employer is the  acoustical consultant for some renowned concert halls, here and internationally. When evaluating acoustics for such halls, all acoustically absorptive or reflective materials must be taken into account and tested if no existing data is available. One such hall you may have heard of (I'd say, definitely heard of  *smile* ) is Royal Festival Hall in South Bank London. After completion of the project, the seat foam samples were left over and laying around the office, so I grabbed them up. I was able to cover the pan by piecing a couple of those samples together with spray-on contact adhesive.  Sooo, you could say I'm riding around on the Queen's seat. (A couple of asides: I took over the audio consulting on RFH after the departure of another consultant, whose systems were troubled. Except for, possibly, sound coverage in the side boxes, I don't think you will be hearing his or my sound systems there today. The other aside is closer to where you are at Newmarket. I was the lead audio consultant for The Apex at Bury St. Edmunds. I just looked at some photos online and it appears my design for the speech system is still in place and in use. (That's rewarding, for me.)

OK, on to seat building. Jachenbach's description of creating the cover from scratch is interesting if you want a sewing challenge, however, I would recommend buying a pre-made cover from Leighton's or some other good source. It will likely be available and affordable. As for foam, you are going to want open cell in the correct density(ies). Yes, a rather firm foam for the base is required, probably firmer than you think. In any case, you could test a piece for how much it compresses and how it feels on your bottom. On top of this (the foam, not your bottom) you should glue a 1"-thick piece of softer foam for a comfy ride. For my seat, in order to get the right height, I started with an excess-height stack of the Queen's Rubber and marked the height all the way around the seat from the pan to where the bead is, based on how much of the bottom flap wraps around the pan. Once marked, you use the electric carving knife to sneak-up on the final desired contour, then work it with the disk sander. You will want to leave a little extra room to wrap the foam in a layer of upholstery-grade Dacron batting. This adds a bit to ride comfort, but is most needed to result in smooth finish that fills out the cover without showing imperfections in the cover or foam.   

Here is a link to an interesting site I looked at while writing this post:  https://www.mustangseats.com/Mustang/Motorcycle-Seats-101-Seat-Construction .

Also, I have attached a picture of my seat. Finally, I will PM you a clip about foam from the book I have on custom auto upholstery. (Posting here would be a copyright breach.)

Good luck and keep the questions coming whenever you want. You already know that everyone is anxious to help.

Richard L.

P.S.   If you read this before my edits, here is a typographical error you laughed at (I certainly did): "I will likely be available and affordable."


Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #7 on: 18.11. 2017 19:46 »
Thanks Richard L. I was thinking along the lines that you suggest. Taking on a sewing and tailoring job does not perhaps sound like the best way of using my time just now, and I can imagine all sorts of difficulty getting it right. So buying a cover sounds good. And thanks for the info on what sort of foam to use, and how thick. I will go to my local foam shop next week and see what they can provide, and what they recommend.

Re the Dacron covering, how do you attach this? Does it need to be tailored to fit the seat shape, or can it just be gathered up/pleated where necessary (mostly I guess at the back two corners and the front of the seat)? Can/should it be glued to the foam?

Re acoustics, was your former employer by any chance Paul Gillieron? He did the acoustics at our new concert hall in Saffron Walden, Which we have been involved in since it was first mooted, and which we often go to.

Thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Offline RichardL

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #8 on: 18.11. 2017 20:57 »
Regarding the Dacron, yes, just gathered up and maybe nipped a bit at the corners. It will mostly compress to an even thickness. Just a little spritz of spray adhesive to keep it in place while pulling the cover on.

I don't know Paul Gillieron. My former employer was Kirkegaard Associates in Chicago. I checked out the hall and it seems a very nice place, especially for the budget, which I read as 10M GBP.

Richard L.

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #9 on: 18.11. 2017 21:40 »
Save yourself a lot of work and go to Leightons.
I wouldn't go anywhere else.
Be sure which base you have before buying bits.
I have renovated seats with their foam and cover sets. Beautiful results.

Offline Sluggo

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #10 on: 18.11. 2017 21:54 »
I have not recovered any A10 seats but done loads of Unit A65 and Unit Triumphs.  Its a mixed bag and depends a great deal on what you have (Condition and style) and how close to stock you want it to appear.

For 100 point show bikes, clearly the std is much different, but a close approximation and comfort,, well that too.  The marketplace has changed a bit since I was doing a lot of shop work.  I used to rebuild seats as a matter of course and kept a number of them in stock, rebuilt as well as new replacements.

For rebuilding I would strip it down, sandblast and treat with chemicals (Rust treatments) then paint the base both sides with a single stage Poly.  I then used new foam and covers.   But the cost of the foam has quadrupled while the seat covers have stayed relatively affordable.  (my wholesale was around $35.00 per seat cover) but the foam was around $85 last time I ordered.   This is preformed and ready to use.

I can outline HOW to do a seat, but it takes practice and after 3-4 you can get nice results.  Getting it just tight enough and not crooked takes some thought and practice.

Used to be wholesalers would run sales on seats for shops and bulk buys got you a further discount. Even British Only (The most expensive US Stockist) Had decent deals and tended to pay around $130 per seat ready to install.   So, was rather affordable but they were primarily more popular models and harder to source less common models.  because of the rise in seat foam I did fewer and fewer rebuilds of seats.

Now, on some bikes and show quality bikes its the little details that make the difference, for example on certain Unit Triumphs the original pattern seats had tiny diamonds in the top cover,,,But the repops have little  circles. Only a truly OCD rivet counter would ever notice and I believe its the same company who make the covers both original and repop.  I know of anally retentive bolt polishers who actually took a used top section and had it sewn into a repop side skirt just to get that pattern. 

Foam tends to be a problem because in most cases it turns to dry crumbly powder and every ride showers the rest of the bike with a pollen like powder.  Foam does not last forever, especially when exposed to battery and oil fumes.

As noted, there IS a wide variety of foam out there and if making your own pads,, the sky is the limit.  Some upholsterers use 2 layers, a denser memory foam on the bottom and the cushiony open  cell foam on top.  I have paid some local upholstery guys to make some custom seats where I supplied the bases and a drawing, and pretty nice but not cheap.  In the US I am a big fan of the Corbin gunfighter seats on some of my other bikes. (Sportster, Norton, Buell and Ducati)  But one of the most comfortable seats for touring is a company called Russell Daylong seats.

Nothing for BSA but might get some good ideas.. I rode a few bikes with them and I think they are ugly, but damn they are cushy for the tushy!   *smiley4*
See: https://day-long.com/

While the corbins are fairly dense material all of mine are very comfortable except one which I sold,, It was a corbin sundowner and even short rides it hurt like hell,, but I really like the rest of theirs. (Again, none for BSA)

I once built a cafe bike for an old guy, and he wanted lots of padding, The seat pad was physically taller but once sitting on it looked fine (Weighed down) and some people made comments, but he didnt care, at his age just riding a cafe bike was a big accomplishment so who cares what it takes.. But we used several types of material a upholstery shop came up with.  Early BSA and Triumph seats were pretty much a plank with minimal cushion, so lots of room for improvement.

Here is a blog with a guy who obsesses over the small details and discusses the seat issue, In an older blog he rants about the seat issues quite a bit. (And is one of the people  I know who will sew together old seat covers with new parts).  Sadly, once done he never rides the things.  All his bikes have zero miles.  Museum ornaments.

See: http://triumphmotorcycles.typepad.com/my_weblog/2014/03/leroy-turner-starts-the-restoration-of-a-1967-tr6c-for-our-collection-part-3-of-a-multi-part-blog-the-front-end-r.html
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Offline worntorn

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #11 on: 19.11. 2017 01:11 »
Save yourself a lot of work and go to Leightons.
I wouldn't go anywhere else.
Be sure which base you have before buying bits.
I have renovated seats with their foam and cover sets. Beautiful results.

+1
I've done a half dozen or so fixes and improvements to my Super Rocket, all have helped. One of the biggest improvements came from replacing the old fossilized but intact seat with a new seat from RK Leighton.
They know exactly which type of foam is best and just how to shape it.
The new seat is very plush and comfortable plus it soaks up a lot of engine vibration at cruising speed.
Would anyone like to buy my old fossilized BSA seat? *smile*

Glen

Online JulianS

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #12 on: 19.11. 2017 08:34 »
Been using Leighton seats over 25 years. Very happy. last one been in use since 2002 and done many miles and still good as new.

Offline jachenbach

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #13 on: 19.11. 2017 14:43 »
  Depending on funds and how much you like to "do it yourself". I bought a used heavy duty sewing machine, enough vinyl for 1/2 dozen seats for less than the cost of one replacement seat. I've done a few now and the A10 came out best. I find this work rather relaxing when I don't feel like getting dirty, and can do it at the kitchen table. And I get more satisfaction from making it than buying it, even when it doesn't turn out as well.
  Electric knife- yes the two bladed carving knife.
  RichardL, good point about the dacron batting, I forgot to mention that.
I've found foam to be by far the most expensive component. My wife brought home some large pieces used to ship expensive machinery. I've also salvaged sofa cushions (most too soft, but occasionally you can find some that work well. The softer foam can often be used as a top layer, as someone mentioned, and when compressed to stretch the seat cover over it, gets a bit more firm.
   One thing I definitely DO NOT recommend is a gel insert. I put one in my Stone seat and even with a layer of foam between it and the cover it's too hot to sit on after 5 or 10 minutes in the sun. A sheepskin over top has made it almost tolerable. Unbelievable how long they hold the heat. Before the sheepskin, I'd have to stand on the pegs for the first 10 miles to keep from burning my butt!

Offline RichardL

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Re: Renovating Super Rocket Seat
« Reply #14 on: 19.11. 2017 14:59 »
J.,

I agree with you about sewing. I like doing it, but do it very little. My intent from 30 years ago of buying a walking foot machine was never fulfilled, and the Jaguar 420G with Chevy 350 V8 for which I had plans to do my own upholstery was finally sold to make room to work on the A10.

Richard L.