Author Topic: Sump Gasket  (Read 1052 times)

Offline LynnLegend

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Sump Gasket
« on: 20.12. 2017 14:48 »
Hi all,

Another thick question (probably). I've bought a sump plate with drain hole, and also the gauze as a separate little plate. Do I need to put a gasket between both? So it goes:

Engine
Gasket
Gauze plate
Gasket
Sump plate

Will it make any difference because oil p155es out of these bikes anyway?

Thanks in advance,

Sam.
'59 A7 - No idea what I'm doing with it.

Online Billybream

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #1 on: 20.12. 2017 15:49 »
Yes two are required.
Not all of them leak oil, careful preparation and the use of modern sealants stop many of the leaks.
1960 Super Rocket, owned since 1966, back on the road 2012 after being laid up for 29yrs.

Online Greybeard

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #2 on: 20.12. 2017 17:03 »
 The original studs are not long enough to use with the new arrangement. If your sump kit came with new screws, (as the SRM one shown does) please take care with them; the crankcase takes Whitworth threads; you do not want to strip the case threads! If you start hanging on the end of an Allen key to tighten those babies you are going to have trouble. I'd prefer to get new, longer studs with Whitworth on one end and BSC on the other then use nuts and don't over tighten. This method means the threads in the crankcase are not disturbed every time you want to take the sump off. I'm pretty certain that the rocker cover studs with washers and nuts are the right size for this job.

As Billybream says these machines do not all leak like sieves; mine is really quite clean at the moment. There are discussions on the forum about sealing joints and shafts if you search.
Such as this: https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=11977.msg92626#msg92626

Offline LynnLegend

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #3 on: 20.12. 2017 17:40 »
Thanks both for your comments.

Greybeard I bought some longer studs after learning the hard way not to overtighten the originals... had a lot of fun drilling the snapped bolt out...

I was being a little bit facetious  about leaking oil - slightly amusing story - having entered my tatty A7 in a show I was dismayed to see the next person turn up next to me with an IMMACULATE Gold Star. My wife could've done her makeup using the chrome as a mirror, it was beautiful and made my lovely old bike look in a proper state.

Anyway, came back a few hours later and he was topping his oil up to replace the pint that had p155ed out all over the place. Mine hadn't leaked a drop, I hopped on, started first kick and rode off.
'59 A7 - No idea what I'm doing with it.

Offline RogerSB

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #4 on: 20.12. 2017 17:57 »
Just my two pennies worth. The magnetic drain plug should be to the rear according to SRM (contrary to what some say).  I fitted one last week and I had to adjust the position of the scavenge pipe quite a lot for it to fit nicely in the filter's hole. Done with a ring spanner over it to move forward or back and a brass drift and a hammer to move it sideways.


I must admit I did use the allen screws supplied but my threads were good so I lightly smeared Blue Hylomar on the gaskets and tightened them with care. I hope now (with the nice big magnetic drain plug) I won't need to remove the sump for a good while.

1960 Golden Flash

Offline LynnLegend

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #5 on: 20.12. 2017 18:52 »
Just my two pennies worth. The magnetic drain plug should be to the rear according to SRM (contrary to what some say).  I fitted one last week and I had to adjust the position of the scavenge pipe quite a lot for it to fit nicely in the filter's hole. Done with a ring spanner over it to move forward or back and a brass drift and a hammer to move it sideways.


I must admit I did use the allen screws supplied but my threads were good so I lightly smeared Blue Hylomar on the gaskets and tightened them with care. I hope now (with the nice big magnetic drain plug) I won't need to remove the sump for a good while.

Roger, how heavy-handed can I be with the scavenge pipe? I'm quite certain the hole in the gauze does not align with the pipe. Is it a case of "bash it until it fits" (my usual approach)?
'59 A7 - No idea what I'm doing with it.

Online Greybeard

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #6 on: 20.12. 2017 18:59 »
I had to bend mine a tad. I was terrified of doing some serious fuckage. I don't think you should be striking it in case it loosens the other end.

Online RoyC

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #7 on: 20.12. 2017 19:03 »

I must admit I did use the allen screws supplied but my threads were good so I lightly smeared Blue Hylomar on the gaskets and tightened them with care. I hope now (with the nice big magnetic drain plug) I won't need to remove the sump for a good while.
When I fitted my SRM cover I made some longer studs from 1/4 Whit bolts, cut the head off the bolt and tap the bare shank 1/4 CEI.
Some people use rocker studs, but I found that they were still a little on the short side. - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-A7-A10-RGS-Rocker-Cover-Studs-Set-of-8/290636546091?hash=item43ab49c02b:m:mw3vQLYwvWgxLV7-9gNHOSA
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
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Offline duTch

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #8 on: 20.12. 2017 19:32 »
 
Quote
Some people use rocker studs, but I found that they were still a little on the short side.

 Those would only be any good with the stock cover, I reckon it's the nuts you're referring to- but there's different methods of that too.
 Plenty of discussion in other threads
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline LynnLegend

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #9 on: 20.12. 2017 19:34 »
Also, could someone please share a photo of their oil non return valve. I am debating whether to fit one or whether to just start the bike every fortnight.
'59 A7 - No idea what I'm doing with it.

Offline RogerSB

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #10 on: 20.12. 2017 21:07 »
Roger, how heavy-handed can I be with the scavenge pipe? I'm quite certain the hole in the gauze does not align with the pipe. Is it a case of "bash it until it fits" (my usual approach)?


I've scanned and attached SRM's instructions that I received with the kit and also a drawing of a scavenge pipe. The blob at the turn of the pipe is meant to be a braise where it's joined.

I believe (and if I'm wrong I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me) but the pipes shorter end is just a tight press fit in the crankcase. So when you put a ring spanner on it to move it forward or back it just rotates it in the hole. When you tap it for sideways movement it either pushes it further in or out of the hole, so you don't actually bend anything.

I could also (just) see the ball bearing in the end of the pipe and made sure it was free to move. So my theory is that the pressure of oil in the pipe above it without the engine running is enough to keep the ball seated and prevent oil from leaking into the sump and under suction when the engine is running the ball is unseated which allows oil to be returned to the tank. There must be something in the pipe from stopping the ball being sucked right up the return pipe and into the oil tank.

It did go against the grain to move it in the way described in the instructions, as it seems quite vulnerable and in a difficult place if it goes wrong but I had to move mine about 4mm to the right and about the same back so I had to trust SRM to know what they're talking about. Moving it backwards and forwards was very easy and it was quite free (in fact first off I thought it was broken) but having to move it back and forth several times to get it in the correct position I realised it was actually swivelling. To move it the other way I put the bike on the prop stand and laying on the ground on the right side I held a brass drift against the end of the pipe and asked my wife on the other side to give it a tap with a lump hammer. This way I was able to keep an eye on it and it took about 6 taps to move it towards the right (and me) for it to be in the right position.

Fits perfectly and no leaks *smile* .

1960 Golden Flash

Online JulianS

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #11 on: 20.12. 2017 22:36 »
The diameter of the verticle portion of pipe is larger than the part fitting into the crankcase casting resulting in the ball being captured in the verticle bit.

Offline RogerSB

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #12 on: 20.12. 2017 22:47 »
Thanks Julian, My post was based on an assumption I made after fitting an SRM sump kit to my GF last week. It was just by doing the work that I started to try to fathom out how the pipe was fitted and why it moved so easily one way and not the other.
Excellent photo shows it clearly.

1960 Golden Flash

Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #13 on: 21.12. 2017 05:53 »
I purchased my sump plate complete with longer studs, gauze and two gaskets from Nookys Nuts (UK). It was about 25 pounds if I recall rightly. There were no issues fitting it.
Colsbeeza
Australia

Offline LynnLegend

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Re: Sump Gasket
« Reply #14 on: 21.12. 2017 07:30 »
Thanks all and particularly Roger for scanning that document.

I'll let you know how I get on at the weekend!
'59 A7 - No idea what I'm doing with it.