Author Topic: Motor strip  (Read 5481 times)

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #90 on: 07.04. 2018 12:34 »
Quote
....... but not what you would want for lazy back road toodling about.   ......

 ...So we can add that to 'tootllng' and 'pootling'    *conf2*

 
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Dunno if the attached will attach -....
   I think that's well appropriated oxymoron... *smile*

 ok Saturday night- maybe I should go antisocialise elsewhere...  *bash*

 Re 'Balancing' I still have to justify my balance act to the Kiwi...haven't forgotten, 'work in progress'.... *beer*

You mean this Dutch? https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=6086.msg41598;topicseen#msg41598

Ps....there’s a lot of kiwis on ere
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash EA7-168x, CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, missing parts so mission impossible?

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife).

GL1800 Goldwing not sure why, maybe cos it always starts

Offline olev

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #91 on: 07.04. 2018 13:56 »
Thanks for the link, Kiwi.
I clean missed that one.
looks good, a bit to ruminate on there.
cheers

Online groily

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #92 on: 07.04. 2018 17:22 »
spot on Dutch!
Said it would, looked as if it would, but only the smaller bit actually did . . . Oh well, only of limited interest, but showed what was in the sums done by the dynamic balancer person (or his PC). Thought might be a semi-useful example of what was taken into the equation in that case, if there are different ways of looking at it  . . .
Might go now  . . .
Bill

Online duTch

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #93 on: 07.04. 2018 23:28 »

 
Quote
...........You mean this Dutch? https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=6086.msg41598;topicseen#msg41598

Ps....there’s a lot of kiwis on ere

 Yep- I meant KGF..you're right; there's almost as many Kiwis on here as there is in Oz  *smile*.....That may be the thread I'm thinking of, but thought there was more comments
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline tlmark

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #94 on: 26.04. 2018 11:59 »
Ok, Long time since I have been able to do any work on the motor. I was hoping to start the rebuild this weekend I had got all the parts out, when...

I thought did I check the small ends?   Er no so brought the rods into work to measure. the first problem which I hadn't noticed was one rod has had the casting flash cleaned off  *eek* one rod weighs 242g and the other 228g!  yeah, that's gonna balance well.

Also, the small end bearings are showing some wear, one is a lot bigger than the other *sad2*  so new bushes needed there. does anybody know the clearance between gudgeon pin and bearings are? 

Offline tlmark

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #95 on: 26.04. 2018 12:12 »
One of the rods oil hole hasn't been drilled to the right sizes either *problem*

Online berger

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #96 on: 26.04. 2018 14:09 »
i have not been to the pub, been too busy sorting gearbox bits, anyway me personaly would be more concerned about the nicks in the rods than the oil hole size, as they say nowadays [discuss] or tell me to f$$k off to the pub *fight*

Offline tlmark

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #97 on: 26.04. 2018 14:20 »
yeah, we've discussed the nick's  *conf* we reckon it might have been where the small end has been pushed/hammered/pressed out? when they were last changed?

feel free to F$$K off to the pub now  *smile* never want to come between a man and some good beer.

Offline tlmark

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #98 on: 26.04. 2018 15:13 »
So the more I look at these rods I don't want them in my engine they are obviously mismatched
so I'll look for some others.

Offline Sluggo

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #99 on: 26.04. 2018 19:53 »
So the more I look at these rods I don't want them in my engine they are obviously mismatched
so I'll look for some others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That seems a rather prudent course of action,
I dont wish to sound like a broken record here,

(insert long rant about metallurgy, elasticity of alloys, Service life of rods, Duty cycle relative to RPMS, and cheap bastards,  *eek* Scratch that, I mean Economy conscience Brit bike consumers)

Seems to me, while a bit of beer slips expended up front, *NEW* rods, Carillo or similar H beam type are actually good value with all factors considered. (least of all piece of mind, Although we could embark on some Shipwrights disease easily).   Use of the machine of course is relative,, If just trailered to show & shines and brief forays into daylight are your thing, then I wouldnt worry about it.  But it would be nice to crack open the throttle a bit and show these millennials a thing or 2 then I would strongly recommend it.

(Dont want to be on some hipsters Instagram account showing "Look at this old fart on the side of the road after scattering his innards and soiling the carriageway with Esso lube!")

Some hotly debate some of the replacement rods being a smidge too short or long but any competent wrench can easily compensate for that little issue.

 
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Online bsa-bill

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #100 on: 26.04. 2018 20:11 »
Quote
Some hotly debate some of the replacement rods being a smidge too short or long but any competent wrench can easily compensate for that little issue.

Could you quantify "smudge", I could live with a little less compression (minus smudge) and some kind of spacer under the barrels to stop any valves assisting the piston to return, anything more complicated than that is beyond this Wrench  *smile* *smile* *smile*
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online berger

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #101 on: 26.04. 2018 20:19 »
i am going to the pub tmow! *smile* apart from that I kept looking at my rods after I had polished measured caressed and put them down, picked them up again multipul times ,THEN I thought sod this if these 60+ years old bits of ally have had their day and give up when doing 60- 80mph ime in the shit, so I chucked some money on some thunder rods and now ime happy. THE only problem was they were too nice to hide in the engine  *loveit* but it could save a lot of *pull hair out* *work* *problem*

Offline Sluggo

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #102 on: 26.04. 2018 21:10 »
Quote
Some hotly debate some of the replacement rods being a smidge too short or long but any competent wrench can easily compensate for that little issue.

Could you quantify "smudge", I could live with a little less compression (minus smudge) and some kind of spacer under the barrels to stop any valves assisting the piston to return, anything more complicated than that is beyond this Wrench  *smile* *smile* *smile*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I avoided specifically quantifying Smidge, Smudge, Gnats  A**, Skosh, C**t Hair-defined by blond-Ginger-Brunette, Inch-thous and "Metrification" because off the top of my head I would probably misquote or say something stupid, Here on this discussion, or the others where the length of the rods are debated.

But its simply good practice to mock up a motor and check ALL your measurements before final assy and adjust accordingly.  when it comes to Ass-U-me that dimensions are correct, you will usually be disappointed on these old engines.  Has the head ever been skimmed? (Has anyone ever done a survey of cyl heads & cyls  for dimensions to see how consistent they are??)  What about the cylinder surfaces?  Unlikely but possible but crankcase deck surface?

List is long on the possibilities, but Thicker/thinner head gaskets, base gaskets & spacers, Milling piston tops or opening valve reliefs are all typical, and then dealing with related geometry issues.
(Pushrods, cam followers, rocker arms)  Depending on the math, a INCREASE in compression might be a good thing if alloy head.  Check ACTUAL compression, not theoretical.  One point often overlooked is in some cases one cyl will differ from the other in actual compression.

These were pretty agricultural motors and close enough is good enough was the norm. 
Optimizing IE: Blueprinting is advantageous in many ways.

Short story:  My good friend Sir Eddy was a english immigrant who upset the local racing scene back in the late 1950s and early 1960s here in the PNW.  He had the first Norton Manxman in the Western US ordered in specially for him.  He immediately took it apart and blueprinted it stem to stern.  No fancy bits, no secret factory speed parts, and while he chatted often with Paul Dunstall (taught Paul some things and learned some things) all he did for cams was offset ground the stock 650ss cam to get a tad more lift, Did a little port work and then balanced it.   
When Eddy was done, The motor was so perfected and dimensionally correct it was virtually unburstable in racing.  He took records in Drag racing (Sprinting, 1/8th mile & 1/4 mile) as well as road racing from Westwood, Seattle, Portland/PIR and a few trips to California.  They even took his motor and stuck it in Sonny Burres's flat tracker and won a AMA National race and spanked the Berliner Norton factory riders.
In short, that 650 was the fastest thing around and faster than factory racers.
After Sir Ed quite racing a local shop (Dirtbags-Glen Adams) bought the motor to see what magic was inside.
Sorely disappointed and quite angry.  No super speed parts. Blueprinting was the secret.  Norton stuff is very crudely made, (Sorry-  *eek* *dunno* BSA as well) and optimizing specs pays huge rewards.

Here is a picture to illustrate. This is Sir Eddy at Westwood, So bloody fast the blighters goggles flew off and note he is pulling air on that front tire while accelerating.
Remember that any advice received on a free internet forum is generally worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it.
We overcharge every 3rd customer to pass the savings onto you.
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Online muskrat

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #103 on: 26.04. 2018 21:17 »
G'day tlmark.
As Sluggo says new rods are a great peace of mind and I put new R&R rods in my last rebuild of the cafe. BUT I raced her (original A7SS) for about 9 years using the old rods, and shortened A10 rods at 14:1 comp and up to 8 grand. I had a few blow ups but none were associated to the rods.
I think the BSA service life of a std rod is 80,000 miles. Gudgeon pin clearance is 1 to 1.5 thou". Correct balance is needed for a smooth motor, it is important to have the little end and the big end balanced separately. Polish out any nicks and scratches (I remove the rough "casting flash" and polish the whole rod). And most important that they are straight and not twisted. I made mandrels to fit the big & little end holes to check this.
If all that is good/done I'd trust'em in a road motor.
Then we come full circle and "new rods are a great peace of mind".
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline tlmark

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Re: Motor strip
« Reply #104 on: 27.04. 2018 15:07 »
Well, the guy who did the machining on the crack case bushes (Vincent expert) was going to rebuild an A10 and he says he still has a set of rods he was going to use already polished that he would let me have. So I might go with those.