Author Topic: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up  (Read 1044 times)

Offline Roadhog

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #15 on: 13.05. 2018 22:46 »
Thanks Greybeared, yep the bearings are the same thickness as the ones that were in , ( if they were right?) unless you have a bearing you can measure for me? I can try a rod , everything is spot on until I tighten up the spindle nut tight.
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #16 on: 13.05. 2018 22:53 »
I'm pretty sure I don't have a bearing to measure.
It's a good idea to break down a problem to check each section.
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Offline duTch

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #17 on: 13.05. 2018 23:42 »
 If you put the thrust washer in the right-hand side, maybe it does actually go in the left....as I say I can't remember mine, and didn't have  look when we thought it was sorted.

 How 'snug' is your R/H bearing in the hub ? Mine was very hard (a bitch) to remove but had no doubt been in a long time...I ask because the hub I was using I *believe* may be from a '54/5 swingarm model with no retainer ring (I'll add a pic from phone shortly), and the R/H  bearing is just a snug sliding fit which enables it to 'self-locate', whereas the bearing in the proper Plunger hub was a tighter fit which I don't think would butt-up to the thrust washer anyway soooo...... with that logic, maybe I put it in the left after-all.... *dunno*.

 I'm trying to envisage in my mind, the difference of having the thrust washer of the left and feel it may make a significant difference (or not)...
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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline Roadhog

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #18 on: 14.05. 2018 16:17 »
Hard to say, you pose as many questions as you ask. LOL. The trust washer would not fit in the left as then no room for the bearing adjuster to be screwed in flat. It fits the r/H side no problem, and gives the bearing a stop? the hub turns smooth and nicely but when the spindle is tight all locked up. I seem to have all the right parts in all the right order
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Online morris

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #19 on: 15.05. 2018 22:41 »
Bent left hand bracket? Pulling the nut tight will then pull the brake drum out of line. But then again, you would notice when pushing the spindle in I guess
I remember mine had the right hand bracket bent. Some PO solved this by adding an extra spacer above the right hand bottom spring for the bracket to sit lower. On the rebuild I left the extra spacer out but then couldn’t get the spindle in. I ended up straightening the bracket by heating and bending.
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Online muskrat

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #20 on: 15.05. 2018 23:17 »
Ah the plot thickens. Many years ago my rear sub frame was misaligned, one side higher than the other. I had similar problem but not locking up solid. You can stand behind the bike and view the axle against the riders footpeg mounting studs.
Cheers
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Offline duTch

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #21 on: 16.05. 2018 07:25 »
 My argument for the thrust washer/ring (65-5884) in the left side is also based on that the bearings have a radius on them, so need more area to bear against, and the thrust-ring has a square/rectangular section to butt up to the shoulder in the hub, and there is very little of a shoulder in the RHS, and I don't believe the Right-hand bearing needs to butt up hard on the O.D...better to 'float' a bit as the swing arm ones do (same thrust-ring, same side in the parts book)

 
  I had another look at my spare hub and there is a more pronounced shoulder LHS to back up my argument... *dunno*

 My frame was also bent,  and had it straightened, but don't think it had anything to do with my issue...

 *edit/disclaimer...I may be completely wrong on that ^^, but it seems valid to me and I still don't know which side mine is and not opening a can o' worms to find out *conf* .....(GB came along in the meantime)
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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #22 on: 16.05. 2018 09:20 »
Roadhog, have you been able to test the hub out of the frame as I suggested?
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Offline Roadhog

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #23 on: 16.05. 2018 17:57 »
Thanks everyone, I will get on top of the ideas by the weekend, sadly work takes up my time. Get back soon once I have tried the threaded bar and tightening up the hub first, to see if it locks up. Then see if my brackets are bent, but dont think so, however I do note that the R/H bracket is 3-4 mm higher than the R/H side one. clearly springs and spacers in the shock are slightly different. 
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Offline Roadhog

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #24 on: 17.05. 2018 17:58 »
I managed to get some time. I stripped the hub and started again. This time I left out the Thrust washer from the left hand side. I slackened off the plunger unit on the left and tapped it downwards a small amount, which levelled up the spindle brackets. I then rebuilt everything and it all works fine. The brake drum and hub spin nicely. It looks like it was two things, spindle brackets on the plunger suspension not in line with each other and the Thrust washer  forcing the left hand bearing to far out. Thanks all.
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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #25 on: 18.05. 2018 09:17 »
Good news!
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Offline duTch

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #26 on: 18.05. 2018 11:35 »

 Sounds rosy and good you've had some apparent inspiration.....but I won't patronize you by blowing hugs and kisses and other crap, because I'm not convinced.

 Sure two changes made a difference, but was it the axle lug/s, or the thrust-ring, or a combo ? You need to do one at a time to be sure.

 The thrust-ring must be there for a reason.
 Which side bearing did you install first ? It makes sense to me to do the (busy)drive side first (which may explain why the retainer ring doesn't end up flush- maybe it doesn't need to be ?) and add the right-side bearing when the other is properly in place (leave out unnecessary bits until needed).
 Removing the thrust-ring will move the wheel/RIM/tyre *off-centre* to the left 3/32" (thickness of ring by all accounts I can find), that will affect your ride.

 Yes- I'm struggling to give an actual answer, but I know I had issues here that I can't document just now, and some things are not worth short-cutting, but good luck with it and I hope the frame isn't bent.

 All I know is when it's properly sorted, it'll be a great ride.

 Remember- this is a learning curve for all of us, and some in the future, and the standard you accept has a potential to set a precedent for others, whatever it may be.

 My today is bergers tommorrow *beer* *beer*  *smile*, (and so is tommorrow)

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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline Roadhog

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #27 on: 18.05. 2018 16:16 »
Hi DuTch, all seems good now. The frame aint bent, checked it out at the start of stripping the whole bike. All plunger suspension parts are new, but were out by 3mm. that's now sorted, it did not cause the lock up, but it did make it hard to get the spindle through. The thrust washer when placed in the left drive side just made it difficult to get the bearing lock in place, on the left hand side inside the hub is a permanent shoulder for the bearing to sit up against, this thrust washer just made that shoulder twice as thick, which in turn caused the lock up. It did fit in the other side but then stopped the slack needed to allow the bearing to float when tightened. all tightened up now and the drum and hub spin nicely. Also the thrust washer on the L/H side stopped the hub pushing right onto the splines on the brake drum. So looks like the thrust washer was to blame.   
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Offline duTch

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Re: Advice wanted, rear wheel locking up
« Reply #28 on: 21.05. 2018 09:48 »

 Ok so long as you're happy, doesn't make sense to me, but don't lose the thrust ring...one other that came to mind but forgot to throw in is the bearing spacer # 67-6061....the one I bought had the 'scalloped' bits on the same way...and one or other was interfering with the rivet heads and potentially jamming the wheel, so I reversed one so the 'scalloped' flanges are at the ends (outside the rivets), and it is ok- just sayin'.....good luck with it.
  pic pending
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Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia