Author Topic: Placement of transfers - 1960 BSA Super Rocket (export version)  (Read 1058 times)

Offline JaRoor

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Folks - this is my first post so bear with me.

I am restoring a 1960 Super Rocket.  Its a ground up.  I have obtained many of the transfers presented in the attached diagram.  But I am unclear where all of the transfers are placed on the bike (if at all) and how they are oriented.  Can anyone offer some support?  Thank you in advance.

Offline BSA_54A10

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The monkey who makes and sells these would not know a BSA from a BMW.
He is a good printer but a useless historian.
Most of what is on the page is not on an A 10.
So you are going to use the rocket, the gold crossed rifles for the tail light, the BSA & 650 is the wrong font & the word twin should not be there.
The garter belts for oil tank & tool box + the OIL LEVEL.

None of the others belong on your bike

The coil stickers belong to an A50/65
The battery warning go on bikes with alternators
The Made in England script was from a Commando ( from memory )
the multi coloured BSA's never fitted to a bike ( Hap did a T-shirt with them on )
Union Jacks never fitted to anything ( AFAIK )
MIE in box, no idea
Oil drain went on B44's ( perhaps other unit singles )
Oil type & brand no idea

The chap who prints & sells these has been doing it for near 20 years and is a German who would do Hitler proud.
"They are right because I print them "
His decals have been causing the BSA clubs grief for a long time and he has been asked to change them on many occasions but steadfastly refuses to do so.

If you bought them off ebay, give him negative feedback.
Quite frankly I thought ( hoped) he had gone out of business a long time ago.
It has been a long time since some one wrote in asking where all the decals are supposed to go.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online muskrat

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G'day Jake.  *welcome*
Now that Trevor has set you straight with the stickers and I moved the topic to the right section (your excused as your first post LOL). How about heading over to Pictures, Stories & Introductions https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?board=13.0 and give us an intro. We luv a good story and pictures.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Muskys Plunger A7

Offline JaRoor

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Gents, thanks for the info and newbie understanding.  All now clear as a bell.  One last detail confirmation - is the tank rocket the correct one for 1960?  I've seen different versions.   

PS I will do some intro. Didn't know it was on the forum.  Sorry.

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Depends if yours is a Big Valve or std Super rocket. http://atlanticgreen.com/a10alloyhead.htm
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Muskys Plunger A7

Offline BSA_54A10

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I have seen several versions of the decal as well.
One has the rocket  strait up with the writing at 90 deg to the rocket and another with the rocket at about 30 deg and the writing still in the same plane.
I was told at the time the angled one went on smaller USA tanks but have never seen any refference to it .
I always get decals for the VMCC in the UK.
They are fanatics so all of their stock is correct but you have to know what you want and order them individually.

Classic Transfers are the next best . Tell them what they are for and usually they can cobble up all the right decals.

Then there is the BSAOA UK who resell Classic Transfers stock now days but used to get their own made a while back.

All the others I have bought over the years were a bitter dissapointment.
The ones you have bought are quite thick and difficult to stretch properly over curved surfaces.
when you cut them out, slope the scissors at a sharp angle to get a fine edge to blend into the tank.
If you cut them square they will start to peel off in no time flat.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline Sluggo

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I will add a little here,, Perhaps some enterprising lad with a bit of time on his hands, AND a service to the BSA community might consider doing a layout thread for the preunit twins models, many of us can contribute where we can.  The one issue in my mind is that UK and export models differed at times, and sometimes depends on if Nigel or Simon was working on the assy line that day.   Whenever researching this, I tried talking to dealers who uncrated and did prep on these bikes back in the day.

Heres what Cliff "The Sandy Bandit" Mahjors told me one day when I had a Bacon and several other books and was asking about paint layout, graphics, and pinstriping for a model I was researching and restoring.  I had found conflicting sales literature, books, period photos and spread them all out on the counter.  He laughed and pointed at a plain fender when others of the same year & model had a 1 inch stripe.  He said
" Some had this line, some didnt, some were so bad we sent them out for repaint, some were missing the fender all together and it was wrapped in paper and stuffed in the crate and the dealer had to paint it & install it"  While curmudgeonly, He was great about giving me or loaning me NOS parts to take back and copy, match paint, or use how I needed.  Later when all his stock got bought out and sold in a big warehouse it was all laid out in rows and on shelves.  He had bought out Tricor, JOMO, NVT and the other variations and had all the US distributors stock,  Was fun photographing it.  It was interesting that some of the NOS parts differed from what the books tell us.

Anyrate, My advice on those decals or stickers is dont use them.  I bought some too, and while i would NOT leave the seller negative feedback (Kind of a dick move) they are not suitable for anything other than decorations on your toolbox or filing cabinet in your office.   The material is wrong, they look wrong when applied, and just are not good for putting on a bike as I believe they will fade, or lift.   Trev is right about the other sources, Here in the US though, we have some dealers and wholesalers and they also supply transfers. 

Many purists stick such transfers on and leave exposed (They dont last) and in some cases they varnish over the top of them which on many was the factory way depending on year and model.  (If you are going to paint over them with modern base coat/clear coats I can write a tutorial on how to properly do so)

Until there is a reference standard on each make & model, what most people do is start with the Bacon books (many errors in there, but still useful) and period photos, others machines that are known history and preferably unrestored are more useful, and then a wide cross section of how the other owners did theirs.

Strive to not replicate mistakes.  David Gaylins Triumph restorations book is the best resource out there for 650 triumphs and he is off the charts OCD for research and presenting CORRECT material, But even he does not know it all. (Nice guy though and very helpful answering my questions).  But until there is a reference material for BSAs up to the same standards, its challenging to get right.  But once you do the research, Its annoying to go to an event and see blatantly wrong applications, And believe me, people WILL point it out.

Oil tank decals seem to be the most improperly applied and bugs the heck out of me.   That Made in England cursive script?  Yes, commonly used on Nortons, but I have seen a LOT of BSA A65s with them including Original zero mile bikes, Typically on timing side on the frame tubes up near the steering neck.  Kenny Dreer of vintage rebuilders & Norton America for a long time used to apply his own version that was added on of "Rebuilt in Oregon USA" or something like that.
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Offline Sluggo

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Got sidetracked, When looking for "Transfers" which is the proper term, MOST of the correct ones are actually a water slide decal.  Again, I can write a tutorial on how to best apply them.  In some cases some are a "Sticker" which is a paper with glue on the back, the artwork applied to this paper is fragile depending on how its made and many will fade badly over time.  The stickers you have are some sort of plastic and just do not look right on the sheet, or on the bike. Clear coating is very risky.
(Plastic tends to melt when exposed to paint solvents)
So, its critical you use the correct materials.  Today there is so many advances in graphics and printing that almost ANYONE can go into the sticker and graphics business.  In some ways its cool because it offers a lot of options, but unless its a custom, the original styles and appearance is hard to get right.

When painting, I have a LOT of experience, but even I screw up and nothing is more frightening than screwing one up and not having a backup. So I always order spares. When I was painting for customers people would get rather bent out of shape if there was a delay while sourcing a replacement, or worse, they did not match side to side, or the colors were wrong.   On some Harleys the tank Transfers are $85 a piece so little room for error, let alone god forbid it goes on crooked, and some of these you get one chance, and no do-overs.

One last tidbit, In many cases back in the day,  Many dealers would ALSO apply their own shop name, I restored several bikes that were documented as having been serviced and sold by Bud Ekins and we sourced original shop transfers and applied them.  In shows many people were drawn to that little detail.  I also worked on a few that had similar transfers for shops/dealers in the UK and Australia and some of these transfers are quite artistic and interesting.  I *THINK* the VMCC or other clubs such as Matchless/AJS club have offered some such transfers as well.  I have seen webpages for them, just dont recall where.

Up to you, But some people get a BIG thrill researching their bikes history, ownership and such and being able to source a replica "Pride & Clark" or "Knobby Treadwells bike emporium" and putting it on their bike means a lot.
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Online trevinoz

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"Made in England", script one, goes on the headstock gusset, right side.
If the bike is the American model, the tank top decal is OK.
Oil level should be OK also.
Can't comment on the garter decals but there are some horrors out there.
The tail light one could have the "Twin" cut off.
Again, not having seen the decals in the flesh, no comment on suitability.

Online Greybeard

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My Plunger has the name of the supplier on an embossed metal plate/badge at the bottom of the rear mudguard.
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Offline Sluggo

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My Plunger has the name of the supplier on an embossed metal plate/badge at the bottom of the rear mudguard.

Those are a very nice touch, and some are quite attractive,  I dont know what the thoughts are to the concours judges as to these if they take off points or add,, but I generally like them if not too obtrusive.   Some people wig out if they think Ken Howard might have signed their paintwork, but have seen some insane auction prices on such machines.

I dont have any such signed bikes, but I would be wealthy if I did. I DO however have a
"Ken Howard hates you" T shirt.. some people know why thats funny.
Remember that any advice received on a free internet forum is generally worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it.
We overcharge every 3rd customer to pass the savings onto you.
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Offline BSA_54A10

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getting a little off track, we had a club captain, Tom from memory who had a really nice late model A 10 which he kitted up with chrome blade guards and a rocket tank.
People would compliment him on the bike,which looked beautiful,  then check the numbers, realise that it was not a rocket then pillory him for "making a fake"
so having a warped sense of humour he made a fake  tank decal which read "SUDEO ROCKET".
I rather liked the idea and the rocket was a touch more phallic than the BSA item .

Well I have never seen so much fuss about nothing and in many cases he was told to take it off a display and not allowed to present it in any concours.
The club was told to cancel his club plate because the bike was "unoriginal" , which being the plate registrar I dutifully ignored.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline JaRoor

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Great discussion and very helpful. Thank you all.  regards, jake

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Staying off track, I've a very rough Virago which although tatty, is very reliable. Fed up with people pointing out it's bad areas, I had made tank stickers "Rough Superior" which stopped a lot of the comments. Only in hindsight did I think of "Rough Inferior".
Helston, Cornwall C11,B40,B44 Victor,A10,RGS,M21,Rocket3,REBSA

Offline Black Sheep

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Take a look here: http://www.motos-anglaises.com/ A French site with lots of bike catalogues. Go to Motos, then on the right catalogues, then look for BSA then 1959 USA Anglais and it's all there.
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep