Help Please, with my Magneto

[a101960]

As usual someone is trading on a once good company name having bought just that, the company name. Then goes on to buy cheap rubbish from China or Taiwan and charge over the top prices for it, making out that it is the genuine British stuff. We have all been caught out like this.

In this case Lucas = Wassel, so we do know who to complain to. If you do not complain you get what you deserve and you are by default encouraging the bas***ds. Apathy and inertia is what enables them to do business this way. Good brushes are readily available from competent magneto repair specialist. If I get bad stuff I complain and so should everyone else affected in this way. After all it is a legal requirement under the sales of goods act that goods purchased must be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality. Always remember the law is on your side.

[stanwhite]

You could always make your own, from 9H pencil leads...  They are very hard, so much so that they are difficult to write with, and rarely need sharpening 

[BSA Biker]

quote author=stanwhite link=topic=13086.msg105627#msg105627 date=1531497906]
You could always make your own, from 9H pencil leads...  They are very hard, so much so that they are difficult to write with, and rarely need sharpening 
[/quote]

Very small diameter though, the normal pencil size.

[RogerSB]

If I get bad stuff I complain and so should everyone else affected in this way.

Quite agree and I intended to bring it to both the seller's and the supplier's attention - not that I think it'll worry them too much or even make a difference.
To be fair, in this case, the pick ups themselves were fine, it was only the carbon brushes that seem to be sub standard.
Highlighting it though, as I have done here and bringing it to fellow enthusiasts attention may be effective in more ways than one. I don't mean affecting sales of sub standard parts, as a miniscule dent in sales probably wouldn't even be noticed, but if it encourages us to buy from suppliers who we know strive to supply us with high quality items it may encourage them to keep going and continue to supply parts for our classic motorcycles and also it may help to prevent a few headaches amongst us.

[bsa-bill]

do we need a BSA Ombudsman   

I was chased for someone elses's debt over a period of four years, solely on the basis of my surname being the same. Financial Ombudsman sorted it out and I got £350 quid compo - yeah it pays to complain

[coater87]

 A place called Helwig Carbon can supply absolutely any brush you could need.

 Lee

[duTch]

 

...Thanks to all your help the old gal is finally going like it should. .......

 If I recall correctly, it's an El Plungo, hey?   Either way, great it's finally happening , and Happy Trekkin'....you'll enjoy it and forget about the hotness 

[groily]

The lousy quality of some of the HT brushes out there has been long remarked on and long moaned about, and yet the parts keep coming  . . . traders sell them without really knowing there are problems, and the end-user is so remote from the maker that the usual channels don't seem to have fixed the problem. Soft brushes WILL mess up the slipring and cause trouble, and they've been doing it for ages. The way things look, they'll continue to do it too.
That said, most of the ones to be found in the little green 'Lucas' boxe are, now, OK as far as I have seen. They don't write like an HB pencil. BUT the ones supplied ready fitted to many pick-ups are useless.

Additional factoid: a lot of pattern HT pick-ups are lousy too.
I used a brand new pair (with good brushes) supplied by a customer on a bog-standard K2F this past week (with trepidation, to see if the cost of 'better' could be avoided)  . . .  At test temperature (50°C) the magneto required well over 200rpm on the armature to fire the prescribed Lucas test gaps and got progressively worse with more heat applied. With better quality pick-ups, same temperature etc, that came down to 135pm. Which is more like. Hot starting is always going to be a pain if you need to get the engine up to 400rpm+ on the kickstart . . . Lucas said we should see 90% of sparks across 5.5mm test gaps at 130rpm cold, advanced, and it's a good basic specification - equating to reliable continual sparks at 260rpm on the kickstart.

This is a particularly relevant issue for A 7s and 10s because with a manual mag, if an angled HT pick-up is required on the front cylinder, the only commonly-available 'new' part that fits easily is the angled and cranked article supplied to the trade by Wassell and maybe others. A simple vertical one will usually fit, but be tight to drip tray or AR cable or whatever, but a plain angled one won't go on. Ergo, people buy the cranked item of poor quality. Usually supplied with a soft brush, and troubles start.
Where possible, I'd fit a vertical one of good provenance to the engine side.

[BSA Biker]

That about sums it up Bill. 

After recommissioning my A7SS from a 10 year lay off three years ago, I replaced the pick ups with the angled ones bought from Ray Fisher in Christchurch. He is a genuine dealer who I've known since before I was legally old enough to ride bikes on the road. In those days he was the Triumph and later BSA agent for our area, after Reg Marsh retired. Indeed I even bought the bike from him for £89.00 in 1967, he still says he would "take a chance" and buy it back for the same money, surprisingly I've refused that offer. Because he is genuine, I would not dream of complaining to him as it is not his fault, the wholesalers should by now know about this problem but as usual don't care. Just keep selling poor or substandard products to our ageing community.

P.S. Took the Bonneville down to the coast this morning in 100*F temps, must be mad, 200 kms and absolutely Kn--- kered, - all in. Too hot for the A7SS and me . Didn't look at the young girls on the beach though.   

[RogerSB]

If anyone is interested, here's what I've sent to Wassell and the seller.

As BSA Biker (reply 23), I don't blame the seller but felt they should know about it. I don't expect replies, but if I do I'll post here.

The pick ups I fitted are the angled left & right ones (see pic. of 458866).  I did check that the contacts inside didn't have any plastic flashing on them, they were both clean inside and the moulding was good and the screw in the HT end was substantial and firm.

Bill (groily) An interesting assessment of yours. Are these the pick ups (see pic) the ones you refer to?
If you use good brushes in them why would the pick ups cause problems when hot?

(Edit): I typed addresses instead of addressed  but I think they'll get the meaning.

[groily]

And your tale sums it up too. Not Ray Fisher's fault, certainly, and if he knew the scale of the problem I bet he'd stop selling the crap.

And yes, editing here (1st go), they look like the bits Roger. But the part no. moulded in is new to me, so can't be 100% sure. However, if the brushes in the thing are the sort that have typically been supplied with the unnamed bits, they're trouble. The ones in the green boxes are often better than the ones that come with the pick-ups, from what I have seen, but who knows whether now we all get the same, whichever way we buy the parts  . . .

Edit again (2nd go)- why problems with the pick-ups? Dielectric strength inadequate. Ie not a strong enough insulating material. Might not feel a shock straight through the thing - though that happens too - but there are leaks to earth on a lot of them, at HT voltages, which is why the test performance is worse than either a good Lucas original if one can be found, or a good part made in the UK or elsewhere. Most repairers in the UK use products moulded by a v good UK maker; in continental Europe there are other options, including excellent Swiss-made parts. But both cost more than the traditional half-a-crown or 35c or whatever which is the equivalent of the cheapo articles widely found on ebay  . . .. The test is 'do they leak, hot or cold, at seriously high voltage?'. The answer is, some do. I've seen them make sparks that can jump from pick-up retaining screw/clip to the rear of a cylinder barrel - from brand new  . . . and small level shocks are common if you put a wet finger on one and across to the mag body. Don't if you have a pacemaker!

Another thing while you're on - the thread for the acorn nut in the pick-ups that offend (and this might be one, as I say)  is 13mm. A correct 'nut' is 1/2 BSF. A 1/2 BSF correct bit won't screw into the replica p/up. Can't tell you how many 13mm nuts are littering my shed  . . . nor how bloody irritating it is.
I'll get some of those pick-ups and test them hot on a mag I think  . . . facts are useful sometimes in these discussions!

An aside, off topic, but I went to Ray's place with some French friends several years ago (boozy camping trip sort of thing)  . . . We had busted the gear selector return spring on a 1942 ex-Italian army 500 Guzzi single somewhere in the New Forest after eating dead animals at the Red Shoot Inn, and we weren't going to get to Poole for one of the evening gatherings if we couldn't sort something out and get the bike running again. Ray was that good - he had a big box of god-knows-what springs and assorted unmarked gearbox bits, and he just said 'Go rummage' . We did - and by one of those minor miracles, there was a spring that did the job. For which he wouldn't even take any money. Good bloke or what?!

[RogerSB]

Thank you Bill, for that detailed explanation. I'll try to think of a way to test the pick ups - without giving myself a nasty shock  .

(Edit): Just returned from an hours non stop ride tonight with Shirley on pillion and GF didn't miss a beat, started first kick, so the Lucas pick ups seem to be ok so far  .

[JulianS]

Just got a nice pair of quality clip on pickups with brass internals, BSF acorns, paper gaskets and good quality brushes from  C and D Autos £27.90 plus postage.

The ones which have the metric acorns usually come with red fibre gaskets.

The metric acorns dont fit either Real Lucas or quality repro as above. 

Brushes? Boxes of new old stock Real Lucas often found on e bay. One box will last many years.

[RogerSB]

The ones which have the metric acorns usually come with red fibre gaskets.

  Like mine  .

I see Brightsparks also sell them with brass internals. I was going to buy them but wanted the gaskets also and they don't come with their pick ups and they don't sell them - so opted for the Lucas ones - which I hoped would be ok. 

[BSA Biker]

I am surprised that Brightsparks don't sell the paper gaskets they sell the other parts so the gaskets are the minor problem, and you are getting a quality item with the pickups.

Bill, as you know Ray is the most genuine dealer you could meet. Did you enjoy the Red Shoot meal, by the way, took the wife there years ago for one and it was good then. Really miss the New Forest, but not the tourists in the summer.