Author Topic: Talk to me about wet sumping.  (Read 472 times)

Offline Atoll

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2018
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • BSA A7SS 1960
Talk to me about wet sumping.
« on: 21.08. 2018 20:03 »
Although I now have my 1960 A7SS with 1954 engine in the frame I am still waiting for a few bits to arrive so not on the road as yet. I have a question or two about wet sumping if I may. The guy I bought the bike off rebuilt it completely including a completely rebuilt engine I think on +40 barrels. The engine has yet to be run in. After 2 months just sitting there and when I went to collect it, he showed me a 1/4 of a pint of oil he had drained from the sump suggesting it was quite good for a newly built engine that had been standing for 2 months. So onto the questions, as follows.
1/ Is the information he gave me correct? 
2/ What would happen if you rode the bike that had wet sumped by 1/4 of a pint apart from maybe smoke a little?
3/ Anything you wish to add to the above, feel free.

Cheers
Les.

Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.
Goucho Marx 1959.

Offline berger

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 1145
  • Karma: 7
  • keith.chesterfield uk 500sscafe.norbsa project
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #1 on: 21.08. 2018 20:32 »
I have not been to the pub,normal at a quarter pint it hasn't wet sumped. when you get round to doing this draining again kick it over and if you don't get more than you are getting now jobs a gudden

Offline Atoll

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2018
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • BSA A7SS 1960
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #2 on: 21.08. 2018 20:37 »
I have not been to the pub,normal at a quarter pint it hasn't wet sumped. when you get round to doing this draining again kick it over and if you don't get more than you are getting now jobs a gudden

Sounds a plan, cheers  *beer*

Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.
Goucho Marx 1959.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8262
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #3 on: 21.08. 2018 21:21 »
G'day Atoll.
Yep 1 cup (250ml) is the usual amount left in there after running.
Rule #1. If the tank looks a bit low, check the sump or run engine BEFORE topping up the tank.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Atoll

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2018
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • BSA A7SS 1960
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #4 on: 21.08. 2018 21:24 »
G'day Atoll.
Yep 1 cup (250ml) is the usual amount left in there after running.
Rule #1. If the tank looks a bit low, check the sump or run engine BEFORE topping up the tank.
Cheers

Good advice. Thanks. *smiley4*

Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.
Goucho Marx 1959.

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #5 on: 21.08. 2018 21:34 »

 
Quote
........... The engine has yet to be run in. After 2 months just sitting there and when I went to collect it, he showed me a 1/4 of a pint of oil he had drained f..............

 Just to clarify, you didn't say the engine has been started and run, and *then* sitting since rebuild, or just sitting awaiting startup.....if it's been run, that oil is about normal (mine has~160ml in the sump), but if it hasn't been run at all, I'd suggest it's bleeding- in which case why add oil until ready to use it  *conf2*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline Atoll

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2018
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • BSA A7SS 1960
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #6 on: 21.08. 2018 22:12 »

 
Quote
........... The engine has yet to be run in. After 2 months just sitting there and when I went to collect it, he showed me a 1/4 of a pint of oil he had drained f..............

 Just to clarify, you didn't say the engine has been started and run, and *then* sitting since rebuild, or just sitting awaiting startup.....if it's been run, that oil is about normal (mine has~160ml in the sump), but if it hasn't been run at all, I'd suggest it's bleeding- in which case why add oil until ready to use it  *conf2*

The engine runs and the seller run it for me before I bought it since when I have started it a few times but not taken it out on the road yet.  I am waiting my new registration plate which is ordered and some clock brackets to be modified before taking it out on the road. I expect to have both soon. The bike starts well of course.   

Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.
Goucho Marx 1959.

Offline beezermacc

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 994
  • Karma: 39
  • Not for the purist!
    • Priory Magnetos Ltd.
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #7 on: 22.08. 2018 00:29 »
Wet sumping is caused by oil running out of the tank via the 'flow' side of the crankcase, through the pump, past the anti wet sump valve in the crankcase, then into the sump via the timing side bush. The anti wet sump valve in the crankcase is a simple spring loaded ball which is often ineffective. If the pump is in very good condition it will not allow much oil through so wet sumping may not be a problem. If the pump is quite tired and perhaps worn due to score marks in its body or slackness between the gears and end plates it will allow oil through, and if the anti wet sump valve isn't working very well either because there is debris on the ball seat the engine will wet sump. In the worst case the crankcase will accommodate the whole of the contents of the oil tank if the bike isn't run regularly. Nearly all A10's wet sump a bit and, after a period of ownership, you will learn how quickly your oil is escaping from the tank into the sump. The best cure is start the bike once a week and watch the oil returning into the tank. As soon as the return flow changes from a constant stream to an intermittent stream the crankcases are emptied of surplus oil. It is not a good idea to allow the bike to wet sump too much as this will create excessive bottom end pressure when the bike is started resulting in oil pouring out of the crankcase breather all over the garage floor, bursting gaskets and overflowing into the primary drive through the gaps in the cush drive. Don't be tempted to fit aftermarket anti wet sump valves as these can cause other problems in my opinion.
Priory Magnetos Ltd - A10 spares, magneto and dynamo refurbs. www.priorymagnetos.co.uk

Offline berger

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 1145
  • Karma: 7
  • keith.chesterfield uk 500sscafe.norbsa project
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #8 on: 22.08. 2018 00:50 »
my experience of a drastic wet sumping some years ago was when it didn't just spill out the breather but filled poor maggie as well {blew it past the seal!!}.  as I was sat on her my mate pointed to the floor so I stopped the engine and on closer inspection it was dripping out of the mag points cover. I took Maggie to bits and managed to clean her up the mucky pup. maybe if the armature hadn't have been rewound and covered in new stuff a few months earlier I think the oil could have penetrated the old covering they used and caused problems *dunno*

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #9 on: 22.08. 2018 03:00 »

 My remedy for wet-sumping if you know it'll be a while before you actually use it, is to drain the oil tank into a clean container and hang it on the handle bar so you can put it in when you need it, maybe just leave enough in the tank to be able to start it occasionally (but not a good idea too often), and not enough to cause a wet-sump issue.... lucky I don't need to do this myself  *smile*
 I've suggested this a few times but don't recall any feedback if it's a good idea or not... *dunno*


Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8262
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #10 on: 22.08. 2018 03:59 »
G'day Atoll.
Not a good idea to run a new (reco'd) motor for too long with no load (road work). It can glaze the bores and rings won't bed in. Once all your bits are on take it out for some work. Search "running in" there a few different ideas on this. I do it in 10 minutes and 20 miles. Some take 500 miles. I can't wait that long  *grins*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Klaus

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2015
  • Posts: 376
  • Karma: 10
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #11 on: 22.08. 2018 08:03 »
It`s a little unusual but when the returnpipe has a crack at the bottom of the oil tank., so Oil escape via the returnline in to the crankcase. My Goldstar show me this in only a few days all oil was in the crankcase and the returnpipe lose in the tank.


If you think, everything is under control, you are not fast enought.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6183
  • Karma: 35
Re: Talk to me about wet sumping.
« Reply #12 on: 22.08. 2018 08:27 »
Wet sumping is caused by...
That is an excellent description Andrew!