Author Topic: A10 anti wet sumping ball valve modification to A65 setup photos and dimensions  (Read 1859 times)

Offline mikeb

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I know its an old thread, tho can I clarify some points about this mod.

Is this exactly as the a65 anti wet-sumping ball valve design? I ask as the original a10 design has the ball pushed out of the oil passage and the oil flow only minimally impeded as it travels through the 7/32” oil gallery hole from the pump to the timing side bush. I guess the ball isn’t fully pushed out the way but mostly.

But this design has the 1/4” ball still inside the enlarged 5/16” oil gallery passage with the oil passing around the ball.  The area around the ball for oil to flow past is about 25% less in the modded version than in the original.

So:
1. Are we concerned about reducing the oil flow with this? Or am I overthinking things again?
2. And did anyone figure out the dimensions of the ideal spring with the mod when still using a timing side bush? Like RD, I’m fairly sure the a10 spring 67-1400 is shorter and lighter than the a65 spring 68-0353 even tho some suppliers list the same for both
3. and RD – did you ever progress your idea of a sleeve in the enlarged oil gallery which the original ball seats against?

thanks
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

Online RDfella

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Mikeb - in answer to your point no3, I was replying to Kiwipom's article - wasn't my idea.
I did change to the A65 system though. Drilling out the hole behind the pump (with an airline in the relief valve socket to keep swarf out of the oil galleries) allowed spring and ball to shoot out. Then plugged the end of the hole 'till just behind the gallery to main bearing. I machined a nipple in the centre to centralise the spring, so it wouldn't simply be lying in the bottom of the bigger hole. But it made little difference, mainly because - I believe - the A10 spring is too light. The bike now wears a valve below the oil tank, as I got tired of the hassle involved with draining the sump before every ride.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online chaterlea25

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Hi All,
Mike, I have run my SR with the modification for almost 20 years and a fair few miles, and it is still going great
(doing better than myself!!)
I have a SRM pump fitted and the wet sumping is not an issue worth mentioning
With the original pump it did wet sump as although reconditioned oil leaks out either along the drive spindle or through the mazac which can be porus, which is more than likely what is happening to RD's bike

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline mikeb

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RD - was yours a roller conversion or a bush? i ask as the spring (25mm long) sits in a 20mm deep gallery with the roller conversion. But its a 25mm deep gallery with the bushed engine. So with this mod, would the standard spring be too short to stop wet sumping with the bush? maybe a longer spring would help?

has anyone had success with this on a bushed engine? Chaterlea - did that huntmaster wet-sump with the 25mm spring?

I don't have a set of a65 cases lying around to measure how far back the gallery sits - that would be interesting.

cheers

EDIT: pic below added re engine with bush - all measures a bit more or less, mix of old and new money.
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

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Mikeb - that sketch is just what I asked for ages ago. BTW, my A10 runs with a timing side bush. I'm of the 'it's perfectly adequate unless maybe you're racing' brigade.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online chaterlea25

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Hi Mike,
The Huntmaster engine is still on the bench, Waiting for a few small parts
It still has the original oil pump so I am not expecting 100% success on the wet sumping issue
I will start a fresh post on its PRV issue

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline mikeb

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RD - with the bush, would it be possible that your wet sumping (post mod) was coz the a65 spring is 25mm length and the depth of the gallery is also 25-ish mm? ie no tension on the ball?
I also have the bush and am getting cold feet about this.
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

Online chaterlea25

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Hi Mike,
The spring is compressed by the ball bearing, so the best part of 1/4inch..

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline mikeb

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John - my point is with the bush, the gallery is 25mm deep so there's no compression. with the roller bearing and the shallower gallery there there would be compression... yes? at least this would be so if my measurements are correct (bush setup - the 'modified' section of the sketch above).
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

Online chaterlea25

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Hi Mike
 *????* *????* The depth is more or less the same length as the spring, but the ball is pushed into the hole
by almost its full diameter by the pump

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)