Author Topic: Crankcase restoration  (Read 948 times)

Offline Daithi

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Crankcase restoration
« on: 30.11. 2018 22:29 »
Good evening all,

 As you can see below my crankcases are in pretty bad condition and need some tlc to return them to their former glory.
I have been reading a lot of mumbo jumbo on d'interweb about the best way to tackle the job.
I dont have the resources to outsource so vapour blasting ect is not an option.
I have concluded that some sort of mild acid wash, rinse (dishwasher... ye/nea??), a mechanical clean using wire brushes and finally some way to seal using anti corrosion is the way to go.

Wondering if anyone has any tips/tricks they would like to share?
I reckon the sump ball valve spring assembly might *eek* need a new spring and a clean out. How do you remove this?
Dave

Online Peter in Aus

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #1 on: 01.12. 2018 01:03 »
If it was me I would be sand blaster it (using glass beads) to clean it up, but looking at crankcases they look pretty bad, but with a bit of patience they could be brought back to life.
Use heat to remove the sump ball valve assemble, looking at it I think that it is beyond redemption.
Good luck
Peter   

Busselton West Australia
49 A7 longstroke
58 A10  SA

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #2 on: 01.12. 2018 05:13 »
If you have a compressor then you can make a soda blaster with a plastic sot drink bottle & an air duster.
It is slow but breathing in the soda will not hurt you and it washes off with cold water.
Truck wash will go a long way to getting most of the flakey corrosion off.
Works better still if soaked for 1/2 hour, NOT OVER NIGHT and you work it with some STAINLESS STEEL , wool , not Brillo pads.
If you have a dishwasher the double up on the detergent and give it several washes, don't get caught or it will cost you big time.
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Online RichardL

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #3 on: 01.12. 2018 05:30 »
At the risk of being seen as self-promoting and exposing myself to some deserved chiding, here is a video I made about removing the "retainging" ball.

https://youtu.be/5IaZnt5WHeI

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Online KiwiGF

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #4 on: 01.12. 2018 06:59 »

I reckon the sump ball valve spring assembly might *eek* need a new spring and a clean out. How do you remove this?
Dave

The sump pickup assembly will probably come out of the crankcase with a bit of heat, as they are usually glued in place (I used loctite retainer, which softens with heat). Only use a little force eg twisting as they can be snapped off.

I’m not sure how the ball inside the pickup is removed but hopefully once removed you can get it really clean and removal won’t be necessary  *dunno*

With cleaning jobs like those cases I’d just get some beers out, find a bluntish knife, and start scraping! (not a sharp enough knife to harm the metal underneath).
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #5 on: 01.12. 2018 08:37 »
If you have a dishwasher the double up on the detergent and give it several washes, don't get caught or it will cost you big time.
Eh? Dishwasher stuff turns alli grey.

Offline duTch

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #6 on: 01.12. 2018 09:59 »

 I bought a soda-blast unit about a year ago to do stuff like this (~AU$90 + media 25kg/AU$60)- only used it briefly a couple of times thus far, need to be diligent where it's used though, as is a bit 'dusty'....even if you took it to a car-wash place and give them a high pressure blast you may be surprised
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline Sluggo

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #7 on: 01.12. 2018 11:41 »
I believe I can help *ex*  I have repeated much of this on many forums so might appear a broken record however here it is for what its worth.

First, DO NOT SANDBLAST AND DONT GLASS BEAD * (*More on GB below)

Castings have a skin to them (Epidermis?) And depending on sand cast, Die cast and quality, the finish may be rough, but its got a hard skin to it.  Once you sandblast you remove that top layer and its now semi porous,

## Porosity is variable, Im chiefly referencing the outer side of the cases, meaning every time you touch the cases with oily/dirty hands it leaves a stain,  Its hard to keep clean and it will be more prone to corrode easily, (Whitish powder).  However SOME castings regardless ARE Truly porous and will weep oil but thats a separate issue and the solutions.

You CAN polish the cases and that seems to skin it back over, and myself, I *LOVE* to polish my alloy.
(Some in the UK are challenged when pronouncing Aluminum, My Yorkshire neighbor runs a machine shop and his staff put it on his "To-Do" list of learn to say it properly)
I have a 65 Triumph with excessively polished cases, head and covers, You need sunglasses.

Prior to widespread use of Soda blasters and vapor blasting, the old school method was called "Bright beading" (or at least thats what everyone I know called it.  I bet in Australia they have their own name)

Bright beading is a 2 step process and time & labor intensive.   You practice with a glass bead machine with BRAND NEW glass beads, the good quality ones. Take a scrap piece of Alloy and crank down the PSI of the machine, Start at 20-25 PSI and build upl  Typically 40-45 PSI but is variable on the cabinet and gun.  What you want is just AT the point the glass bead shatters, then drop it a notch so less than 10-15% of the beads shatter.  It can take a long time to clean cases... Then follow with 2 steps in a solvent tank, Diesel & Stoddard Solvent makes a good mix although toxic, (Use LOTS of ventilation & respirator)  We use 3M Scotchbrite pads, 2 colors, Green & Red, so translate whatever grit that is.   The diesel has a lot of oil in it and acts not only a solvent but a bit of lube.
Cases with lots of elbow grease come out sparkly and show ready.

Much easier with Soda blasting or Vapor blasting is my #1 choice.  Some positive bennies and comparison.

The soda blasting became the std in aviation as, when done a hot water bath and air nozzle does a good job of removing friction material as it dissolves.  (ANY Cleaning you can never be TOO clean, repeat 3x more than you think you need on cleaning)  But the soda is the safest method.   Soda can be purchased from industrial suppliers and can vary in abrasive # so shop around,  The Grocery store stuff works but is too powdery.  With soda blast you can blast inside and outside a engine case, all others have to be masked off.

I have been experimenting and found a Harbor freight regular pressure sandblaster works better than their dedicated soda blaster, But you have to convert the gun to a soda model or modify the sand type gun. (Trigger clogs and the nozzle orifice needs to be smaller)  I run 120 PSI with a 2 stage compressor with 2 60 gallon tanks and a 90 gallon piggy back tank.  Volume matters, (Pressure vs Volume)

I dont care what anyone says, use a respirator, not just a dust mask.  I can write a book on the health issues.  Sand, baking soda, walnut shells, glass bead,,, ALL of them.

I dont have a vapor blaster but I would like one, Was going to partner up with a friend and build a commercial one, but not on the front burner.  We have several places that do the vapor blasting and some guys do ship their cases.

I Prefer vapor blasting if i do case repairs, welding or had to go grinding or other work.  A lot of my stuff seems to have holes, nicks and scratches so its rare I dont have to do surgery on a engine case or parts.
    "  Ye olde junque pile

My old job and my wifes machine shop DO have a texturizing set up. (Blanking on the tech term)  But those can vary but they have 2 one runs solvent and one runs water.  But its a big hopper about 4' across and cone shaped with a rotator, a spray wand that rotates and spray nozzles on the sides.  It has a humongous vibrator table under it, and filled with sandstones and some sort of rubbery cones,,They have different grades of the stuff, just depends on what materials they run thru as the shop runs copper-brass, steel & Stainless as well as alloys so they have different media.

You turn the machine on the bed of stones and other bits shake and you drop your parts in and watch it get swarmed like ants.  Stainless takes a while but alloy bits need only 3-4 passes and done.   If you do an engine case ALL holes and internals have to be securely sealed off.  If you left alloy in there 2 long (overstayed the coffee break)  Every sharp edge and feature will be smoothed off.  But if you are going to polish the cases,, thats a big time saver!   I prep and then have Mrs Sluggo do all my bolts and hardware before I send to plating. Deburs and shines up the metal so it plates beautiful.  (its ALL in the prep!)

I dont do it for others except REALLY good friends who gift me lots of beer  *smiley4*  But I used to do a lot of polishing and have a backlog of stuff to do.  I have multiple buffers and polishers, "Buff-Zilla" is my main machine.  Runs a 1" solid billet steel hardened shaft and a monster motor.  I can lean into stainless and it wont stall.  (Dont get hung up on HP,, its ALL in armature size! Bigger is better. Mass, I got a big industrial motor and its a beast)  Ive got stepper pulleys to dial in shaft speed for the material.  Buffing and polishing is a whole different art.  Im only adequate with a lot of swearing and cursing and occasionally launching a part across the room, But I used to work with and still know some real artists with a buffer.  Its truly an art form between a hack like me and a really skilled guy.  Nobody lasts long in the polishing business. Carpal tunnel wrist and arthritis is not an *IF but when....

"As cast" finishes are nice, and for a concours show bike, its a standard to uphold, But I love polished old vintage alloy and tend to over do it.  Its a special level of OCD because once you start polishing a cyl head or cases,, its either all or none.  Half polished looks like S**t.
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Online RichardL

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #8 on: 01.12. 2018 17:24 »
Uhh, I suppose I gltched and read the "ball" question as referring to the retaining ball. Nevertheless you need to replace that, as well, and improve the ball seat.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Offline duTch

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #9 on: 01.12. 2018 20:03 »

 
Quote
......I reckon the sump ball valve spring assembly might *eek* need a new spring and a clean out. How do you remove this?.

 Possible the end of the tube is a sweat braze fit over the main tube- may be removable with heat  *dunno*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Peter in Aus

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #10 on: 02.12. 2018 01:26 »
I believe I can help *ex*  I have repeated much of this on many forums so might appear a broken record however here it is for what its worth.

First, DO NOT SANDBLAST AND DONT GLASS BEAD *

Shot down in flames again *dunno*
But I have been using sand blasting with glass beads for years with no problems, inside and out. and then use a high pressure water cleaner with detergent.
I am not a purist, I like to ride it, not polish it *beer*
Peter


Busselton West Australia
49 A7 longstroke
58 A10  SA

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #11 on: 02.12. 2018 02:36 »
Plenty of useful info in these posts, but I want to say just ONE thing about finishing AFTER you've cleaned it all up:
DO NOT try to seal the aluminium with any type of clearcoat or anything like that.
It ALWAYS peels off, oxide blisters underneath and will look disgusting, and it's then a nightmare to refinish.
I reckon (once the big cleanup is done): Polish (not shine)* the aluminium thoroughly, going through wet & dry papers to at least 800 grade.
Then polish.
The finer you polish it with the wet 'n dry, the more it will resist oxide and dirt, because there will be fewer/less miniscule pits and scratches for the dirt to reside.
Hit it with much pressure cleaning and detergent before the final polish (with Brasso or similar).

Good luck, hope you have lots of elbow-grease.

*Polish is what Jewellers and Silversmiths do... Shine is what you get on cheap Xmas decorations

Offline Daithi

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #12 on: 02.12. 2018 02:46 »
Thanks for the input fellas and Richards vid up the other end of the pitch, Some good info there
I'm going to have a route under the sink and see what class of chemical delights await.
Having a look at the condition of the oxadiseation and how thick it's caked on I think a wire brush head on a battery drill is the best way to start. Then see what shape there in.
Dave

Offline duTch

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #13 on: 02.12. 2018 06:34 »

 
Quote
.....I'm going to have a route under the sink and see what class of chemical delights await...

 That's scary.... what ever you do don't put caustic soda ( sodium hydroxide-NaOH if I recall correctly)... anywhere near it plutonium and indium, Imodium, regular uranium and Osmidium may be Oll-Korrect, but NaOh will turn it to hydrogen and sludge *eek*

 Yes also I didn't mention sand or bead blasting because sand is too abrasive and acidic, and beads get in everywhere and are a pain in the butt to clean out....water blast is probably the best... now where was I... *conf2*


Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Crankcase restoration
« Reply #14 on: 02.12. 2018 09:11 »
If you have a dishwasher the double up on the detergent and give it several washes, don't get caught or it will cost you big time.
Eh? Dishwasher stuff turns alli grey.
Prior to the ultrasonic cleaner, I boiled my amals in dishwasher detergent for decades.
If they get hydroxyl staining ( grey to black colour ) then rinse in hot water with a touch of vinegar in it then into boiling clean water.
Otherwise it s a boiling water rinse and a blow dry.
Bike Beesa
Trevor