Author Topic: Interfering silencers  (Read 1544 times)

Offline Steverat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2018
  • Posts: 251
  • Karma: 1
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #30 on: 20.01. 2019 19:22 »
Hi Steverat,
Adding a thicker spacer or a washer or two to the rear plunger mounting should move the silencer out from the frame
I seem to remember that while working on a plunger single, that there was a special bolt to take the silencer with a "thick head" and stud to bolt the silencer to  *????* *????*
Check the header pipe for "ovality" at the head end,  *????*

John

Yes John I have the “stud headed” bolts on the plungers already. But good point about packing them out some more. Maybe I’ll make some special ones.

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Online duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4420
  • Karma: 40
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #31 on: 20.01. 2019 19:26 »

 
Quote
Dutch,

The story of fitting your pipes is one of creativity, tenacity and, obviously, honesty.  ;) *smile*

Richard L. 

 You forgot 'Insanity' and a few other synonyms..... *conf2*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 5432
  • Karma: 28
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #32 on: 20.01. 2019 21:05 »
I seem to remember that while working on a plunger single, that there was a special bolt to take the silencer with a "thick head" and stud to bolt the silencer to...
In one of Steve's photos you can see that he has the correct bolt/stud at the bottom of the plunger.

Online Peter in Aus

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 307
  • Karma: 1
  • South West, West Australia
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #33 on: 21.01. 2019 01:06 »
Steve.....On no account attempt to bend the pipe using any part of the engine as a fulcrum. You stand a good chance of breaking something.  Your picture looks as if the exhaust pipe is pointing very slightly upwards, which makes me think the error is in the sweep of the bend in the pipes, in other words to make them fit you need a downward bend almost from the pipe mounting to make this part of the pipe run level.

   

I agree with Swarfcut. those those header pipes are just plain wrong. If you can, send them back for a refund is the best bet.
Trying to bend them to fit is almost impossible.
Peter

Busselton West Australia
49 A7 longstroke
58 A10  SA

Offline Steverat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2018
  • Posts: 251
  • Karma: 1
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #34 on: 21.01. 2019 14:01 »
I do have a suitably shaped "forked tree" in the garden, but it would not hold the pipe. So I tried using a mandrel which I held in a very substantial vice. The Armours pipes are aptly named, they are so heavy and strong. Impossible to bend by hand even with Nick's help. I tried out the old pipes from the bike, and hey presto they are a perfect fit and no touching of frame tubes nor necessity for spacers either. Voila:



1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 5432
  • Karma: 28
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #35 on: 21.01. 2019 14:43 »
Here is a link to a folder on my Dropbox account.

As it's off the bike at the moment, I've put some pictures on there of my bike's right-hand header pipe on the bench. I've added that picture of my bike from when it was newly done with the same pipes. I've also put the picture of your project bike with the new downpipe. The first bend of the Armours pipe looks too sharp to me. It almost looks like it's less than 90°. The old header looks to be a much smoother curve. 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/46w4lwq5yduaxg7/AAB2ZIer4WF92rtHu3Q0tu_Ka?dl=0



Offline Steverat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2018
  • Posts: 251
  • Karma: 1
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #36 on: 21.01. 2019 19:24 »
Thanks Ian
I have ordered another pair from Burton Bike Bits who were amazingly responsive, should be delivered tomorrow already. Then we will see. BBB get theirs from Wassell. I will report!

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline coater87

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1165
  • Karma: 6
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #37 on: 22.01. 2019 15:32 »
 I think whatever Armours uses for an A10 standard or pattern is way off or worn out.

 I had a lot of problems with their stainless pipes too, had to have them mandrel bent and then completely re-polished. With shipping to the US and all the additional steps I have quite a bit of money wrapped up in the exhaust of this bike.

 But I sure do like it.

 Lee
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline Steverat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2018
  • Posts: 251
  • Karma: 1
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #38 on: 22.01. 2019 16:17 »
Burton Bike Bits were wonderful and got a pair of pipes to me within 24 hours.

But....

They fit slightly better than Armours' but not good enough. To stop the silencers rubbing the frame I have to set the headers only halfway into the exhaust ports, and then they splay out so widely I would need spacers under the lower brackets - worse yet the nearside one starts to interfere with the footbrake lever. I also phoned Drags who informed me that Armours are actually the only manufacturers in the UK, - they supply Drags too - so my BBB pipes may be Armours - I probably have 2 sets of Armours pipes. They certainly look similar to each other.

The old pipes fit like a dream of course...

So I called S+T to talk about re-plating the old ones. Unfortunately they are now in the January rush and I'd have to wait 8 weeks to have them done. Since Josef is coming for the bike in March that is a nono.

So now I have a real problem. 3 pairs of pipes on the premises and nothing which I can use! Feked was the other tip but I can't seem to raise them on the phone, they were busy until 3 and now there is a (friendly) ansaphone messsage saying they don't answer calls after 3 o'clock. Hmmm...

Not my best day today. Any ideas gentlemen?

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline Swarfcut

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2018
  • Posts: 643
  • Karma: 8
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #39 on: 22.01. 2019 16:57 »
Steve.... I would be inclined to contact Burton Bike Bits and explain that the pipes supplied are a problem, and get a refund. This forum has information about the trading record of popular suppliers, well worth checking out. Returning the Armour ones may be difficult if they are unfit for resale to another sufferer, so the best here is to negotiate a possible partial refund. Might be worth a trip South to bang on the counter rather than send them off to never be seen again, despite what the present rulings on distance selling says.

  So, press on with final assembly, and spread the net wider for chrome plating establishments. Get Google working for you,  there are plenty up the M5 in the West Midlands.  If all fails its just a polish with aluminium foil/water to remove the rust, or some exhaust paint to set the new trend in restoration perfection. I think if Josef wants the ultimate finish, this will have to wait.  Better a useable machine that's 99% right and out of your way.

 Swarfy.

 

Online RDfella

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: 4
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #40 on: 22.01. 2019 18:16 »
As I understand it, there are two or three different shape bends, presumably according to year.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online KiwiGF

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 1337
  • Karma: 12
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #41 on: 22.01. 2019 18:33 »
As I understand it, there are two or three different shape bends, presumably according to year.

Over in nz we have limited choice in motorcycle exhaust manufacturers  *sad2* .....in case it is also relevant to the UK (and Armours) the local guy I know cannot make all the large radius bends, or bends that change radius, so the “custom” pipes I’ve seen made by him are made up of smaller radius bends plus straight sections that were not present in the original pipes (hope that makes sense). Once you know how this it’s not hard to see the difference between oem and his custom pipes.

He does make them so they fit properly though  *smiley4*

New Zealand

Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one.

1956 Flash Frame EA7-168x Eng. CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

B31 “hot rod” (yeah right)

Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife).

GL1800 Goldwing not sure why yet

Offline a

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 4
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #42 on: 22.01. 2019 23:43 »
aaaagggh!! Sory to hear of the dramas, But does make us happy to hear that this is not something that just happens here in our shop.
We wont sell pipes, and even reluctant with mudguard/fender mounts, as the fitting can vary so much!! Worn out jigs with reproduction types, and even differences in bikes. Yes believe it or not not every one of these bikes were built with in .0001" of each other, and what fits one bike, may need tweaking to fit an exact same bike across the other side of the world. Hell we have Brand new bikes here from the factory (Yes New bikes that never sold) and the pipes are hard against the frame., mudguards never look perfectly centered over wheels, "Incorrect bolts" compared to the parts book etc...
Remember guys, Dont always blame the shops, these bike's weren't always built perfectly with the attention to detail that we put in to them now :)

Offline Tomcat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 366
  • Karma: 2
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #43 on: 23.01. 2019 06:00 »
I re-use the old engine pipes after a rebuild to save blueing up the new ones. Perhaps this could buy you some time?
'48 A7 '59 SR '74 850 Commando TDM900

Offline Steverat

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2018
  • Posts: 251
  • Karma: 1
Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #44 on: 23.01. 2019 08:34 »
Well the thing is, Josef is here on 21st March for a party at which (rashly I admit) I have promised to hand the bike over in showroom condition. His daughter is coming too, and friends from London etc. Air tickets have already been bought. If I say to him about the pipes he will say it’s okay don’t worry but I don’t want to put him in that position. So I’m going over to S&T in Yate to see what they can do with braze filling and replating the old pipes. Perhaps they can slip the work in as an extension to the (extensive) work they have already done.

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS