Author Topic: Interfering silencers  (Read 1312 times)

Online Greybeard

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #45 on: 23.01. 2019 08:55 »
My new pipes blued during the running in period. Are you ready to start the engine? If so, I suggest using the old pipes for a while before getting them plated.

Online RDfella

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #46 on: 23.01. 2019 11:35 »
Sounds to me that tweaking those new pipes is the best option. Can't understand why you couldn't do that when you tried - my A10 pipes were Armours and needed a slight tweak (had to tighten the bend a fraction if I recall) - had no problem doing it on my own.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #47 on: 23.01. 2019 11:50 »
Yes Ian, interestingly the old pipes are very blue already, so I'll do that. It doesn't look as if I'll be able to get them plated in a reasonable time and the other platers I rang prefer not to touch exhaust pipes anyway due to the contamination risk.

I bought a pair from Feked who told me they get them made from their own pattern and assured me that they are not patterned on the Armours pipes. Not directly anyway. Greg from Feked could not explain why they list them as being for the plunger form 1952 onward. Josef's is a 1951 bike. Will that make a difference?

Then I rang Burton Bike Bits and learned their "Wassell" supplier is not the well known wholesaler but an independent manufacturer. I'm trying to call Feked now - no point in them sending more pipes if its from BBB's supplier.


1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #48 on: 23.01. 2019 12:04 »
Sounds to me that tweaking those new pipes is the best option. Can't understand why you couldn't do that when you tried - my A10 pipes were Armours and needed a slight tweak (had to tighten the bend a fraction if I recall) - had no problem doing it on my own.

RD you must be a strong bloke. I did try really hard to bend it. I got some thick walled steel scaffolding pole which fitted closely inside the pipe as a mandrel, put the pole in a massive Swindens vice attached to a 200kg bench and pulled with all my might, with a foot braced against the vice. No yield, it sprang back every time. So I got a friend to help. He couldn't shift it either.  Incidentally the Armours pipes are bent too tight, they need unbending a bit. Strange to hear you put an extra bend in yours, I don't think they have changed the pattern.....

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Online RichardL

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #49 on: 23.01. 2019 12:08 »
Sounds to me that tweaking those new pipes is the best option. Can't understand why you couldn't do that when you tried - my A10 pipes were Armours and needed a slight tweak (had to tighten the bend a fraction if I recall) - had no problem doing it on my own.

When my new left-side pipe just wouldn't stay in the port it was clear to me the sweep was too great a radius. With no good option to return the parts (about a
year between purchase and install), I decided to have a local exhaust shop give it A tweak. I knew their bender would not be the correct radius, but worth the risk, versus sh*t canning. The result is in the picture, seen just behind the cush-nut dome. As far as I know, no one has ever noticed it, certainly haven't mentioned it. I guess the secret's out now. *smile*

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online Greybeard

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #50 on: 23.01. 2019 16:07 »
...As far as I know, no one has ever noticed it, certainly haven't mentioned it. I guess the secret's out now. *smile*
Really Richard, the whole motorbike is ruined! I'll take it off your hands if you pay me a few dollars.  ;)

Online muskrat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #51 on: 23.01. 2019 18:52 »
G'day Steve. I feel your pain.
The problem with bending a pipe with a exhaust pipe bender is it reduces the diameter. To do it properly the pipe needs to be filled and hard packed with dry sand and plugged each end. Then usually with heat they can bend without deforming. Problem is the chrome will suffer.
Your pipes need to be "un-bent" a bit where they enter the head.
Strange how they sell A7/10 pipes when the A10 ex port is 1/2" higher in the frame so the pipes need to be that much taller.
My A7 plunger silencers (stainless made by Overlander 35 years ago) just touch the frame. Never really worried about it.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
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Muskys Plunger A7

Online RDfella

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #52 on: 23.01. 2019 19:00 »
Steverat - only remember the bend was slightly out - can't now recall whether it was too tight or the opposite - was thinking it needed tightening but could well be wrong. Dunno about strength - getting on a bit now and nowhere as strong as I used to be. It's only a fraction required and wasn't unduly difficult - jut a good heave ho. No good leaning on it, you need to take it by surprise.
There really is no room for error on those pipes, especially the LH one, where the kink could afford to be slightly further back. As I mused a couple of posts ago, I thought there were different shaped bends according to year. As getting a good fit appears to be not unusual, I believe Feked claim their pipes are slightly different and effectively a one-size-fits-all.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #53 on: 23.01. 2019 21:33 »
Feked are sending me a pair too so we shall see!

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Offline berger

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #54 on: 23.01. 2019 23:08 »
o stevie boy the pipes, the pipes are calling- from glen to glen and round the bend again *shh*

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #55 on: 24.01. 2019 12:26 »
  The more you think about these pipes, the more of a conundrum it becomes.  As musky says there must be a theoretical difference in overall height between A7 and A10 pipes to account for the different barrel heights.

  Then we have the difference between early small fin heads and the later wide fin variants. We assume ( and hope)  the ports are in the same place, as the parts list shows the same pipes for early and later heads but without one head of each handy to compare, who knows?

  Then left and right pipes, making a possible 4 different pipes in all.  One size fit all, Sir. Yeah.....too right.

 Swarfy.

Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #56 on: 25.01. 2019 02:24 »
G'day Steve. I feel your pain.
The problem with bending a pipe with a exhaust pipe bender is it reduces the diameter. To do it properly the pipe needs to be filled and hard packed with dry sand and plugged each end. Then usually with heat they can bend without deforming. Problem is the chrome will suffer.
Your pipes need to be "un-bent" a bit where they enter the head.
Strange how they sell A7/10 pipes when the A10 ex port is 1/2" higher in the frame so the pipes need to be that much taller.
My A7 plunger silencers (stainless made by Overlander 35 years ago) just touch the frame. Never really worried about it.
Cheers

Thanks for your sympathy Musky. I am soothed. The Feked product (code F84-pair) is for plunger A10 only, should be okay. I was only slightly worried that it’s for ‘52 not ‘51 - anyone know the difference between the years?

It’s not just the silencer touch that bugs me - the Armours and BBB pipes also tend to stick out at the side at the front whereas the old BSA’s are nicely tucked in behind the line of the timing and primary chain covers. Armours were really sweet about taking the pipes back, I sent them yesterday. I’m keeping the BBBs until the Fekeds arrive, to compare. The Fekeds are coming later today, please keep your fingers crossed for me!

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Online JulianS

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #57 on: 25.01. 2019 10:19 »
I think the plunger A10 exhaust pipes were the same for all models all years.

The 1950 all model parts book (I posted a copy last year and it can be accessed under "Service literature" gives the off side pipe as 67 2720 and nearside pipes as 67 2722.

The 1951/52 all models parts book, also posted, gives the same part numbers.

Look at the 1949-53 A series book and 1954-57 A series book, posted by Sluggo, and the pipes are still listed under the same part numbers.

Offline Steverat

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #58 on: 26.01. 2019 06:03 »
I think the plunger A10 exhaust pipes were the same for all models all years.

The 1950 all model parts book (I posted a copy last year and it can be accessed under "Service literature" gives the off side pipe as 67 2720 and nearside pipes as 67 2722.

The 1951/52 all models parts book, also posted, gives the same part numbers.

Look at the 1949-53 A series book and 1954-57 A series book, posted by Sluggo, and the pipes are still listed under the same part numbers.

Thanks for the research Julian. Unsurprisingly the Fekeds exhibit similar qualities to the others. They all have this double curve in the downpipe and run out to the side before tucking back in too hard at the back making it difficult to get the silencer on without frame tube touching. It seems that has to do with the method for bending them up, one of you suggested that curves in modern pipes can only be done to a fixed radius, though none of the suppliers has confirmed that. The BBB is the best of the bunch for me, and we’ll be keeping those. Josef will also be taking the old BSA pipes back with him, just in case...

1951 BSA A10 - now returned to Germany
1972 Triumph T100R Daytona
1924 B-S SS80
1965 Triumph SH Cub
1960 AJS M18CS

Online Greybeard

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Re: Interfering silencers
« Reply #59 on: 26.01. 2019 11:45 »
Bugger! I really hoped the Fecked ones would be OK. It sounds as though you will be able to use the BBB ones, albeit with silencers touching the frame.