Author Topic: New cam followers  (Read 1036 times)

Offline BritTwit

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 0
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #15 on: 23.02. 2019 14:50 »
I recently purchased MCA A10 lifters from a trusted US source 6 months ago.  When I opened the package (newer yellow MCA label), I knew right away something was not right about these.  I've used many NOS A series lifters with a nice polished contact finish.  The MCA's had a rough unfinished look.  My engine builder did not want to use them.  He did try to polish the wear surface the same way he finish polishes crank journals.  He is now looking into having them treated.  I hate to think what they would do to my NOS cam.
In defence of the supplier, I understand his predicament.  You do your best to supply your customers needs and you don't have a way to test the product.  This is where end user feedback is invaluable.  MCA provides a needed service but must keep sight of protecting their reputation.  I've had many reproduction parts on the shelf for years, only to discover their poor fit when the time came to use them.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 4963
  • Karma: 27
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #16 on: 23.02. 2019 16:30 »
...The MCA's had a rough unfinished look....
My SRM supplied ones also have a sort of 'sintered' look to them. SRM assure me they are ok.

Offline berger

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: 5
  • keith from chesterfield uk 500ss cafe, morris 8
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #17 on: 23.02. 2019 16:39 »
yes greybeard srm supplied just like my bad piston rings, those followers of yours just shout out NO GOOD, the ones srm sold me have a super finish with srm lasered ? onto them.

Offline Swarfcut

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • Karma: 8
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #18 on: 23.02. 2019 18:12 »
GB... This is for you.

 An appeal by Swarfy in an attempt to cheer up esteemed member Greybeard.   Also to get some traction on this cam follower problem.

 GB reckons he has the wrong collets etc. May I request anyone with a head in bits to do some measuring, valve lengths, collet size, valve collet position, collet to valve tip distance? You know what I mean. A10, Iron Head. 1956. (so I reckon)

 If you have a barrel to hand, how about the dimensions of a genuine follower. Could be these pattern repros are just a bit too long!

 Lets help this fella a back on the road while there is still some gas left in the world!

 Thank you all, fellow sufferers.

 Swarfy.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 4963
  • Karma: 27
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #19 on: 23.02. 2019 20:42 »
GB... This is for you.

 An appeal by Swarfy in an attempt to cheer up esteemed member Greybeard.   Also to get some traction on this cam follower problem.

 GB reckons he has the wrong collets etc. May I request anyone with a head in bits to do some measuring, valve lengths, collet size, valve collet position, collet to valve tip distance? You know what I mean. A10, Iron Head. 1956. (so I reckon)

 If you have a barrel to hand, how about the dimensions of a genuine follower. Could be these pattern repros are just a bit too long!

 Lets help this fella a back on the road while there is still some gas left in the world!

 Thank you all, fellow sufferers.

 Swarfy.

Aw shucks!  *red* *red* *red*

Thing is, I think my problems started after I changed the valve collets. I definitely had the wrong ones, (with a ridged inside edge) from yonks ago. I bought a set of wedge type collets, but I think I've read that there was more than one wedge type for these motors. SRM are positive that my problem is due to valve spring binding. I will compress the valve assemblies and check them when I can get enthusiastic about it.

Online duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 4204
  • Karma: 39
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #20 on: 23.02. 2019 20:50 »
 
Quote
..... SRM say they have seen this before and they feel sure the problem has been caused by bottoming.........

 Geebs, if you mean the lifter binding on the grub screws at full lift, maybe there should be 'witness marks' inside the travel stop zone ?

 
Quote
....I will compress the valve assemblies and check them when I can get enthusiastic about it......

 At full lift, I guess you should be able to determine further travel by levering the rocker arm down a short amount (taking care to not lose the pushrod from the cup) ?

 ** edit- ^^ may be applicable as trevs' situation too *dunno*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 4963
  • Karma: 27
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #21 on: 23.02. 2019 21:21 »
It's all a bit foggy in my memory at the moment. I will have to study everything when I get back to it.

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • Karma: 66
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #22 on: 16.03. 2019 22:57 »
Further to this story, I was asked by the owner if I would rebuild his engine to which I agreed.
I stripped it down and inspected everything.
Amazingly the sludge from the followers did not wear anything out but it was caked heavily on the inner perimeter of the flywheel and had almost blocked the sludge trap.
There was no sign of wear on the big end journals, still on size from the grind and the camshaft was also in good nick.
The sludge was not easy to remove, it would not wash off in the tub without brushing but I am hopeful that it is all gone.
The crankcases are very early, dated January 1950 and do not have the oil feed to the cam trough and timing gears. I am curious as to when the oil feed was introduced.
There was  a heavy deposit of carbon on the piston crowns and evidence of oil passing the Hepolite rings. I had the barrel coarsely honed and was informed by the machinist that the barrel had about 0.002 ovality and was a bit bell shaped, possibly caused by over heating.
The next problem was the valve adjusters, new when the engine was overhauled but worn out in 500 miles. They are very soft, I dressed them with a file and polished them, will try to harden them in the future.
I changed them for a used set I had to hand.
There were two left hand rods fitted to the engine so I blocked the oil hole on the one on the right.
The job is finished and the engine has gone home. Just waiting for the report on it when is back on the road.

Online RDfella

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
  • Karma: 4
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #23 on: 17.03. 2019 12:29 »
I believe this follower problem is that a lot of these sorts of parts are coming out of China - and often re-packaged. Trouble is, whilst we should be grateful there's parts available at all, my experience with Chinese metal working is that they haven't yet got the hang of hardening / tempering. Or even perhaps material choice. Just recently I had an hydraulic banjo bolt fail at 4,000psi (Chinese Honda look-alike) It had been over-hardended and was brittle as glass. The followers mentioned in this thread (including Greybeard's) clearly haven't been hardended properly - either too soft, skin too thin or base metal unable to support the loading involved. Cam followers are one of the most highly stressed parts of an engine.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline berger

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: 5
  • keith from chesterfield uk 500ss cafe, morris 8
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #24 on: 17.03. 2019 13:23 »
I agree RD fella my brother says the same as you regards the metal and heat treating, he has myford lathes and he bought a big Chinese lathe , he says everything is machined as soon as it comes out of the foundry but good old british castings were left to weather for years before they were machined --- bryon donkin valves for big industry comes to mind, here in chesterfield where a big donkin factory was the castings were all in the yards for many years, now its a case of quick production -time is money!! . He has done extensive work on the Chinese lathe  to get it up to myford standard. going back to topic about the parts we sometimes have to throw in the bin the problem is with the packaging , if they put a union jack sticker on it or it says made in England on the box that is the con and apparently it is legal .

Online Bsareg

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
  • Karma: 2
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #25 on: 17.03. 2019 22:55 »
I recently bought a Hepolite exhaust valve for a dbd34 and was surprised to find the tip was soft. Hepolite says that this is correct as a soft material against the hard rocker pad will lower wear. There's some logic to this, but why would BSA have specified hardened tips if not required ? Perhaps there is some modern thinking behind this theory, but I think I trust BSA more and made a hardened cap for the stem tip. Time will tell.
C11,B40,B44 Victor,A10,RGS,M21,Rocket3,REBSA

Offline berger

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: 5
  • keith from chesterfield uk 500ss cafe, morris 8
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #26 on: 18.03. 2019 00:28 »
wish I could talk to hepolite --- they don't exist anymore, and  whoever told you that doesn't want the parts back . they just want  sales, most things in this life now are cons and lies, they want your money, even a roads inspector told me that the person hole covers they put in are made in china and only last a couple of years before the frame distorts and they start banging. but it doesn't matter because its not the persons money who's buying them, its tax payers so it doesn't matter. if that was my valve I wouldn't be a happy bunny

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 1775
  • Karma: 29
    • BSA National
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #27 on: 18.03. 2019 07:14 »
I believe this follower problem is that a lot of these sorts of parts are coming out of China - and often re-packaged. Trouble is, whilst we should be grateful there's parts available at all, my experience with Chinese metal working is that they haven't yet got the hang of hardening / tempering. Or even perhaps material choice. Just recently I had an hydraulic banjo bolt fail at 4,000psi (Chinese Honda look-alike) It had been over-hardended and was brittle as glass. The followers mentioned in this thread (including Greybeard's) clearly haven't been hardended properly - either too soft, skin too thin or base metal unable to support the loading involved. Cam followers are one of the most highly stressed parts of an engine.

Wrong.
They know exactly how to heat treat steel
However when Steptoe's son send one over to Ei Fool Yoo engineering with the instructions "make me 1000 that look exactly like these as cheaply as possible " that is exatly what the nice Mr Yoo does.
He make 1000 identical looking parts for 10p each.
Steptoes's son sells them to Ron Daily autos who then sells them a reputable parts wholesaler and finally you buy them for £ 20 each.
No factory owner in CHina goes looking for parts to make cheaply & badly.
They are all made for church going, Queen loving, patriotic Englishmen who ar the pillars of UK industry.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online RDfella

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
  • Karma: 4
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #28 on: 18.03. 2019 08:32 »
BSA-54-A10
I understand what you say, but it actually reinforces my point - poor quality engineering is coming out of China. If Mr Ei Foo You was an engineer and wanted repeat business, he'd either make them properly or refuse the job. There is a difference between making as cheaply as possible (which is good engineering) and making poor or unsuitable quality - which is worse than bad engineering.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: New cam followers
« Reply #29 on: 18.03. 2019 15:00 »
Mr Ei Fool Yoo makes exactly what is specified - no more, no less. Blame the company's specifications, not the manufacturer. 
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep