Author Topic: Frame woes  (Read 837 times)

Offline berger

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #15 on: 05.04. 2019 19:36 »
I have not been to the pub, don't know about powder coat but mine stood stove enamel in 1981ish maybe I was lucky - like lucky lenny- there's a joke in there somewhere but its not for this channel  *eek*

Offline Rich

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #16 on: 07.04. 2019 20:14 »
I have been busy this weekend, using a frame that was loaned to me, I have made a template for the centre stand lugs missing on the frame, just need to get them cut out from suitable thickness steel. Also missing from the frame was the front seat fixing tube and pin, the two left hand toolbox fixings, the tank centre bolt fixing, saddle and all, as well as the bracket that drops down from the top frame tube that take the tank rubbers and of course the side stand bracket. I have made the drop down top tube bracket from two pieces and drilled all the holes in them as per the original, also the tank fixing saddle just as the original, these two parts I will get welded or brazed by a professional, not sure which would be best,the front seat fixing was an easy make using the lathe to turn to the right size, drill the hole to take the pin part and drilling the hole for the locking bolt, this I also welded into position the side stand is one of the Indian universal ones which I have reworked so I can actually take the swivel bolt out (it was a rivet) to leave the brackets on the frame but take the stand part off, the top part of the bracket I have welded in place, now the stand will not move resulting in the bike falling on the ground. the two lugs for the toolbox on the left side of the frame down tube, was turned on the lathe and drilled and tapped to take the studs, then welded to the frame using the loan frame to get the exact measurement for location.
Then I ground the end of the swinging arm tube off and using the air disc cutter, (very thin cutting disc) I cut the tube between the frame and the s/a tube and removed the swinging arm, I have a new tube and a spare swinging arm to go back in.
I then pulled the squashed in plates in front of the top suspension bolts, where the oil tank and tool box bolts go through, some one had been heavy handed tightening those bolts up. using a thick flat square washer and a bolt with an inside washer, worked a treat, I wonder if a spacer would be a prudent addition for these two fixings?
I need to make some sort of location template to get these centre stand lugs in the exact position as with no stand it has to be spot on, job for Monday after the morning physio at the gym, its a bugger getting old

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #17 on: 07.04. 2019 21:18 »
Hi Rich
Good work  *smile*
I gave you the measurements of where the stand lugs sit when a straight edge is placed on top of the mudguard lug
compare that with the loaned frame

Quote
I wonder if a spacer would be a prudent addition for these two fixings

Yes there should be spacing tubes, 1" long from memory
They are shown in the parts book

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online Rex

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #18 on: 07.04. 2019 21:46 »
Not in my experience. Rubber is degraded or destroyed by the heat process.
I feel your pain with the bushes though. Last time I did this job on a BSA C12 there's not a threaded rod in this world that would pull those sods out, so cut and destroy was the only way. As noted, correct SilentBlocs aren't easy to find though.
Didn't  someone once say the best way is to re-engineer the whole shebang is by turning up replacement bushes in phos-bronze?

Online RichardL

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #19 on: 08.04. 2019 00:59 »
Rex,

Two things. First, the threaded rod was an attempt to free the spindle from the blocs, not the blocs from the swingarm. Didn't work anyway. Regarding custom bronze bushes, this link was posted earlier in this thread. https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=13733.0

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Guy Wilson

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #20 on: 08.04. 2019 10:38 »


You don’t need a press to remove and fit new silent blocs, just some threaded bar and spacers, and a fair bit of blood sweat and tears.

The hardest part of doing the job at the moment, I’ve read, is finding good new silent blocs.

If you’re interested in changing the blocs I can search for my post on topic for you.
[/quote]

I had the same problem.. finding replacement silent bloc bushes took time. I think (and I wish I could be certain) I called Petter Hammond MC +44 1285 652468 who had a set on the shelf. This was last September..

cutting out the old bushes is the only practical way of removing them. The Threaded rod technical is the best way to refit. Its really (REALLY) important to measure the combined length of the replacement bushes against the swinging arm. The bushes are generally slightly longer and need cutting to length. Something you can't do once fitted...
Guy

Offline Rich

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #21 on: 08.04. 2019 12:33 »
Peter Hammonds are my local shop, they do not have any in stock, Wassell are out of stock and also MCA which are British made are also out of stock, so I will use the spare swinging arm, John I am going to make a jig, some thing with a rod and spacer to go through the lugs and then bolt onto a fixed point on the frame on the loan frame, then the welder will get them in the correct position,without having to measure anything, in the process of cutting them out know, just having a lunch break :-)

Offline berger

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #22 on: 08.04. 2019 12:52 »
REX I know what your saying re-- the bushes heat and rubber, it was so long ago in the days of dad saying go see your mates in the pub and when you get back job will be done and done right. he might have got them out before myself and a mate took mine and his notrun frames etc to Long Eaton enamelers  or in the good old days of customer service they took them out and put them back in *dunno* all I know is I didn't take them out or put them back in, only ones I took out were on a cubby for dad to make new bushes and pin---- or they withstood the process at the paint shop *dunno*

Offline Guy Wilson

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #23 on: 08.04. 2019 15:03 »
this is something I found useful..
Guy

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #24 on: 08.04. 2019 18:28 »
Extremely useful if I may say so.      Will save lots of frustration and anguish, as once in, destroy to remove.     BIG THANKS!!!

 Swarfy

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #25 on: 08.04. 2019 21:38 »
Extremely useful if I may say so.      Will save lots of frustration and anguish, as once in, destroy to remove.     BIG THANKS!!!

 Swarfy

A post on the topic (there are many), but you’re going the bronze bush route?

https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=4293.msg63859#msg63859
New Zealand

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Offline Rich

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #26 on: 14.04. 2019 08:43 »
I decided to try and remove the swinging arm bushes as I have a spare swinging arm if it fails, be it with a wheel adjuster thread stripped, which will be an easy repair, anyway I used a blow torch to get the swinging arm hot and destroy the rubber and drifted the whole lot out, but how does one get the outer bearing sleeves out?

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #27 on: 14.04. 2019 09:48 »
Rich. Go back to my earlier post, April 1. Cut a slit lengthways in the outer tubes, not deep enough to cut completely through, thus avoiding damage to the S/A, but enough to weaken them  so they can be collapsed inwards with a pointed drift between the tube outer and the S/A.
 Get the S/A blasted and powder coated before fitting new bushes, if you go the rubber route, to avoid heat damage to new bushes. For installation, check dimensions first as above, then the long threaded rod stud and spacer trick avoids violence.  Make sure there are no burrs to impede easy entry.
 Bronze bush conversion, final finish can be left 'til last.

 Swarfy.

Offline Rich

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #28 on: 14.04. 2019 18:23 »
Done bush sleeves out and the swinging arm through hole is blanked off ready to be blasted,workshop clean out as that molten rubber got every where, motor on the bench as I have been nagged by others to clean out the sludge trap, am I going to open a can of worms, I hope not
 

Online Greybeard

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Re: Frame woes
« Reply #29 on: 14.04. 2019 18:53 »
... have been nagged by others to clean out the sludge trap...
Good lad! Just ask questions.