Author Topic: Grease in the primary chaincase A10  (Read 371 times)

Offline philwhitelaw

  • Active
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« on: 13.04. 2019 08:23 »
Hello all,
             I have a leaky chaincase on my 1961 A10 that wont go away and was wondering if anyone has tried to replace the oil with a low melting point grease. The dynamo chain is lubricated this way but the crankcase gets warm enough to melt the grease and pool at the bottom of the cavity. The rear of my primary chaincase stays quite cool so I imagine the grease would just initially fling itself off the clutch basket around the inside of the case and stay there, the result being a dry chain. Any thoughts?

Phil W.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 4976
  • Karma: 27
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #1 on: 13.04. 2019 08:44 »
How much oil are you putting in the case?

Have you cleaned up the case mating surfaces?

Are you using Allen screws or slotted screws?

What sealants have you tried?

Please will you go to Introductions and tell us something about yourself and your motorbike history.

Offline a10gf

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 2611
  • Karma: 42
  • West Coast, Norway & Alpes Maritimes, France
    • A10 GF
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #2 on: 13.04. 2019 08:45 »
Hello, IMO, the chain won't last long... or using chain lube regularly as you would on the drive chain could maybe work ?
Also, shock absorber and clutch are constructed to run in oilsplash conditions.
Best is to work on the source of any problem, not symptoms :O) So I'd look at how to fix the leak.

Those who have belt conversion may chime in.

The intro post is always appreciated :O)
Norway & France, Alpes Maritimes. A10 GF '53 My A10 website
"Success only gets you a ticket to a more difficult problem"

Offline JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 824
  • Karma: 16
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #3 on: 13.04. 2019 09:22 »
Worth considering that it might not be from the joint it could be leaking from the sliding plate where the clutch centre passes through or could be seeping from the gearbox mainshaft or could be blowing from the breather.

Online Triton Thrasher

  • Scotland
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 1361
  • Karma: 20
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #4 on: 13.04. 2019 10:02 »
An old trick was to put a spoonful of tallow in the case as well as the usual oil. Some riding mates of mine have said a spoonful of grease worked as well.

The grease is supposed to find the leaks and clog them up.

Online Swarfcut

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
  • Karma: 8
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #5 on: 13.04. 2019 10:10 »
T T.. A candle from the corner shop was the favourite on Matchless Tinny Primary Covers. Melt on the gas stove, pour it into the cleaned out case, slosh it a bit, leave to set. Then add the oil. Seemed to work....well enough to sell on. Very unusual to have a BSA that drips anything ......in my limited experience.

 As to the problem in hand, Julian has covered sources of fake leaks. "They all do that Sir"

 Reasonable inner and outer faces will seal easily with a good gasket and a thin smear of the dreaded silicone sealer, plus a check that there is nothing down the bolt holes, bottoming the bolts and preventing full clamping pressure on the gasket.

 Swarfy.

Offline RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 4825
  • Karma: 45
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #6 on: 13.04. 2019 14:30 »
Very unusual to have a BSA that drips anything ......in my limited experience.

  You're kidding, right? In my limited experience they're humorously known for leaking (set aside any lack of diligence on my part leading to the leaks on my own bike).

 
Quote
Reasonable inner and outer faces will seal easily with a good gasket and a thin smear of the dreaded silicone sealer,

...but nowhere where silicone meets engine oil, please. (That's why Swarfy said "dreaded.")

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online Swarfcut

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
  • Karma: 8
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #7 on: 13.04. 2019 14:55 »
Rich. Dead right. Silicone in the wrong place is certainly a no no. Keep well away from oilways. A smear is all you need. Bolt up loosely, let it cure overnight and finally tighten the cover down.

 Yes, couldn't resist that little joke. Its almost the free added extra, all for the sake of wafer thin joint faces in critical areas. No wonder the Japanese cleaned up the market.
   My 53 Plungy had no chance of the stand rusting away, when I got it. When I announced to my mates, way back, that I was getting a BSA, the response was that I was getting a "dripper."

Swarfy.

Offline bikerbob

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: 7
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #8 on: 13.04. 2019 16:06 »
This is an ongoing problem with our bikes that I am not aware of a guaranteed solution. In my own case I had a 1957 A10 swinging arm model for 16 years and I never had an oil leak from the primary case the garage floor was always oil drip free no matter how long the bike stood. I now have a 1956 A7 and I have had the primary side stripped a number times to try to cure an oil leak with only limited success, it only leaks a few drops after it has been out on a run never while just parked in the garage it can stand months with no leak but go for a run and  sure enough I get a few drops of oil leaking. So now because I hate seeing oil on the garage floor I park the bike after a run on a sheet cardboard until such time as someone can come up with a guaranteed solution. The only difference between the 2 bikes is the A10 had a four spring clutch and the A7 has the original 6 spring clutch, but both bikes still relied on the sliding plate with the felt seal. Now I do think that it is important that the relationship between the  sliding plate and the reverse scroll on the clutch sleeve is correct this is determined by the taper and I have found that using differnt clutch sleeves can alter the position of the scroll to the sliding plate. Also when ever I adjust the primary chain after setting the correct tension I always move the gearbox a touch so that the scroll is not touching the sliding plate.

Offline berger

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • Karma: 5
  • keith from chesterfield uk 500ss cafe, morris 8
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #9 on: 13.04. 2019 16:17 »
I think its your breather that makes your drip, I thought it was my primary until I got neck pains looking under there and wiping the inner case down . ps I went to the pub *beer* *countdown*

Offline t20racerman

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Karma: 6
  • Keep it nailed!
    • The T20 'Super Six' Suzuki website
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #10 on: 13.04. 2019 16:42 »
Hello, IMO, the chain won't last long... or using chain lube regularly as you would on the drive chain could maybe work ?
Also, shock absorber and clutch are constructed to run in oilsplash conditions.
Best is to work on the source of any problem, not symptoms :O) So I'd look at how to fix the leak.

Those who have belt conversion may chime in.


I have a belt drive - so I'll chime in! Owned the bike for over 30 years and don't think the chaincase was ever totally oil tight in all that time, but how much it leaked depending upon how much time, care effort etc I put in to it. If it ever did stop leaking for a bit, I was always concerned that the oil had run out. To be honest, if you run a 60 year old bike, you aren't ever going to have it leak-free like a modern bike. As a long term owner I've always lived with a oil smears and light leaks, but fixed big leaks. I'm happy with that.

I eventually bought a belt drive as I prefer the technology of that to a diddy little chain in a leaking case - so no more oil drips. Also runs quieter and smoother as an added bonus. Expensive, but worth it, although I appreciate that that is probably not the solution to suit everybody!
1961 A10 - somewhat modified :-)
1980 TZ350 - lunatic Classic Race machine
1967 T20 Suzuki - heavily modified Classic Racer
1967 T20 Suzuki - pretty standard road bike
2007 KTM 660 SMC - fast and furious supermoto
Triumph 675 Speed triple
Ossa 250 and yet another T20 racer in bits both being built up

"If I had all the money back that I've spent on motorcycles... I'd spend it all on motorcycles!"

Online Swarfcut

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
  • Karma: 8
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #11 on: 13.04. 2019 17:30 »
If all else fails, a bolted on homespun drip tray will catch the small drops, and annoy the purists, but Niagara Leaks should be easy to find and need fixing pronto. I go with the racer on this, if it's dripping, there is reassurance that there is still some oil left. Time to worry when the drips stop.

 Swarfy.

Offline RDfella

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Karma: 4
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #12 on: 13.04. 2019 20:02 »
Phil - it's nearly 50 yrs since I put oil in a primary case - tell a lie, I put oil in my DOT'S case around 20 yrs ago - it all leaked out within a couple of weeks. I got fed up with primary case oil (more slipping clutches than leaks though) so for decades I've boiled the primary chain in grease (as I do with all my chains; putting oil or grease on the outside is a waste of time) and repeat every few thousand miles. As my bikes aren't 'daily drivers' that's several years.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Posts: 3005
  • Karma: 45
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #13 on: 13.04. 2019 20:32 »
Hi All,
Deja vu all over again  *roll* *roll*

A forum search will reveal lots of threads on how owners sorted their primary drive oil issues

My  experiences are that the repro sliding plates are crap quality as are the felt seals
Alloy sliding plates are available with a proper oil seal,
A cork washer can replace the felt, but the thickness is critical
A gearbox sprocket nut with oil seal is well worthwhile
If the engine is a bit tired or the rotating breather cork is loose oil will be thrown out the breather  and appear at the bottom of the primary

I made my own "seal" but a breather had to be added to the primary case as pressure built up in there

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline philwhitelaw

  • Active
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Re: Grease in the primary chaincase A10
« Reply #14 on: 13.04. 2019 23:39 »
Thanks for all your replies gents.  I have smoothed off the mating surfaces with wet and dry on a surface table. There is 200cc of oil in the case. I use wellseal goo and allen bolts, the bottom row with rubber o rings under the heads. I dont think the fasteners are bottoming out on the threads.  The leak seems to be coming from the chaincase to crankcase area at the front, its not from the breather as the engine oil is a different colour. I have stripped it down a couple of times but it still drips quite badly during a run. Its not a real problem as I only do short journeys and keep an eye on things. As long as I can see oil fling when the engine is running I'm happy, its just a bit embarrassing leaving an oily puddle whenever I park up anywhere. Next time I take the outer case off I will put a bead of setting sealant around the area behind the drive sprocket and see if that does the trick.

Phil.