Author Topic: removing rear wheel bearings  (Read 669 times)

Offline jonny web

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removing rear wheel bearings
« on: 21.05. 2019 20:02 »
Hi all,
i am wrestling with the crinkle hub at the mo, as the wheel supplied with the project was a later one with raised rivits and didnt fit. i have now got hold of a plunger crinkle hub and need to get the bearings out, i have it in mind to make up an expanding extractor but thought i d ask if anyone has a simple way of doing it ? Why BSA didnt make the inner spacer free floating so one could slip it to one side slightly i dont know.
best
JW

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #1 on: 21.05. 2019 21:10 »
Jon.. You just need a big hammer and a drift. The outer races are a press fit, and require a bit of a smack. Removing the wheel bearings usually involves destroying the bearing shell cover, so bear this in mind.

 The hub has a bearing retaining ring on each side. From memory these are identical and have a left hand thread, so first try the one within the splined end, undo with a bar across the slots, or in a bad case, two folks hammering in unison  on opposite sides  of the retainer slot will break the seal. The next problem is removing the bearing shell cover without damage. It just pushes on, but can be difficult to remove, so try a bit of heat, but once this is off, along with a felt washer and a small spacer, the bearing retainer is revealed. This will unscrew as before.

  The splined drive side bearing sits on a locating ring which positions this bearing positively within the hub. The other bearing outer race floats, so without the retaining rings, in theory pushing this bearing into the hub will push the drive side bearing out. With one bearing removed, the centre spacer will jiggle free, then the remaining bearing will knock out.

 Assemble the hub with your new bearings, spacer and the drive side bearing retainer tightened, put  the wheel into the frame and add the rear spindle, with all the spacers etc. Tighten the spindle as normal, check for free rotation. This will settle the other bearing. Remove the wheel and add the remaining retainer and the shell cover.

 If getting access to the bearings is difficult, or they refuse to come out, try an expanding masonry wall bolt through the bearing centre or weld a bar across the inner race, they are scrap anyway, to allow purchase by the drift.

 Early Swing Arm and Plunger hubs have the same bearings, so I am wondering why your other wheel did not fit.

 These bearings are not adjustable and even when brand new will have some play at the rim, a characteristic often not understood by a youthful vehicle tester. The original bearings were open, these days sealed bearings are a better choice.

 Swarfy.

Offline a10gf

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #2 on: 21.05. 2019 21:18 »
Read the section under the retainer picture, about heat\cold :O)

https://www.a7a10.net/BSA/rearwheel.htm

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
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Offline jonny web

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #3 on: 22.05. 2019 19:39 »
Thanks for the replies

swarfy let me go through your good long note


Jon.. You just need a big hammer and a drift. The outer races are a press fit, and require a bit of a smack. Removing the wheel bearings usually involves destroying the bearing shell cover, so bear this in mind.

I got a hub without the dust cover, just the felt ring behind it, i already have a dust cover which incidentally fits the plunger hub but not the later hub.

 The hub has a bearing retaining ring on each side. From memory these are identical and have a left hand thread, so first try the one within the splined end, undo with a bar across the slots, or in a bad case, two folks hammering in unison  on opposite sides  of the retainer slot will break the seal.

These were pretty tight but the best way i ve found is to let soak with penetrating oil, put two fairly big screwdrivers into the slots and  use a tyre lever or similar to turn the ring off. one was so tight on i had to tap the ring around with a small punch until it loosened


The next problem is removing the bearing shell cover without damage. It just pushes on, but can be difficult to remove, so try a bit of heat, but once this is off, along with a felt washer and a small spacer, the bearing retainer is revealed. This will unscrew as before.

see as before



  The splined drive side bearing sits on a locating ring which positions this bearing positively within the hub. The other bearing outer race floats, so without the retaining rings, in theory pushing this bearing into the hub will push the drive side bearing out.

The spline side bearing does indeed have a raised step behind it as you say, but tapping the timing side bearing through is not possible due to the rivet heads on the inside of the hub,.

With one bearing removed, the centre spacer will jiggle free, then the remaining bearing will knock out.

 Assemble the hub with your new bearings, spacer and the drive side bearing retainer tightened, put  the wheel into the frame and add the rear spindle, with all the spacers etc. Tighten the spindle as normal, check for free rotation. This will settle the other bearing. Remove the wheel and add the remaining retainer and the shell cover.

 If getting access to the bearings is difficult, or they refuse to come out, try an expanding masonry wall bolt through the bearing centre or weld a bar across the inner race, they are scrap anyway, to allow purchase by the drift.

the expanding bolt is an idea and i had the same one myself, i will see if i can find something ready made but if not i was thinking about a pair of small levers with sharpened feet which would sit at the point where the bearing meets the inner spacer, hammering a rod between them would spread them and force the feet to open up the gap and give some purchase on the bearing inner to knock them out

 Early Swing Arm and Plunger hubs have the same bearings, so I am wondering why your other wheel did not fit.

well they are sort of the same but different, and i would like to start with the right bits to at leas thave a chance of it all fitting together,

 These bearings are not adjustable and even when brand new will have some play at the rim, a characteristic often not understood by a youthful vehicle tester. The original bearings were open, these days sealed bearings are a better choice.

got to have a bit of play at the rim ! At least BSA saw fit to have two bearings in the hub as well as one in the brake plate, HD's VL model had one in the brake plate and one in the hub so when the splines wore out the  wheel had an ich of play at the rim ! (dont worry said the tester at Happy Hamrax, they all do that) but a terrible system. Thanks for the advice and I ll let you know how i do
best
JW

Offline duTch

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #4 on: 22.05. 2019 23:45 »

 JW-
   just so you know, that post is a bit hard to read easily, you need to differentiate between Swarfo's comments and your answers... 
              *eek*
 I had a bitch of a time getting mine out sodi as you suggest, and made a expanding type tool from welding a washer onto a dyna-bolt sleeve and a taper on the outside circumference of the washer (which sits in the join between the bearing and spacer/sleeve/distance piece), then slicing it lengthways and wrap it in duct/duck tape to hold it together. I then used the tapered dyna bolt in reverse and screwed a nut on until it took hold and give it a (bit of a) whack.....It's not here but maybe can dig it out later and take a pic

 Swarfo- The Plunger bearing has different ID than the S/A ones due to different spacer/sleeve/distance piece setup (S/A one is a better idea, but not interchangeable)....


Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #5 on: 23.05. 2019 08:01 »
duTch.. My parts book shows bearing 65 5883 common to plunger hub and early 1954/55 S/A hub, so this is the basis of my suggestion they were the same. The cutaway diagrams show the different arrangements, so a mystery?
 The dismantling procedure was a summary of Service Sheet 212C, published in February 1965. Pushing the right side bearing towards the hub centre assumes the bore is smooth. Later variants with riveted construction mean your method is the only gentle way. A 6" nail head,  ground to a wedge profile can be forced between the bearing and central spacer to start a bit of movement. Weld method is a bit brutal but quick.

 Jon.. If your original wheel has only one bearing retaining ring, it is from an early S/A  bike.

 swarfy.

Offline jonny web

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #6 on: 23.05. 2019 08:28 »
thanks guys
yes point well taken about different text colors etc !

dutch the removal tool sounds interesting and i guess there a several ways to tackle it but i would like to be able to pull or push the bearings out rather than hammer them as they may well be reusable

swarfy my original wheel is indeed later with one retaining ring, as well as that some plum respoked it with the idea that the hub is on the centre line of the rim, with no offset so i intend to get an early plunger  hub working and lace the wheel on that i have.

before i bang bearings around i just need to see if it fits which it does not
i will post a new therad now to tackle this !

best JW

Online Greybeard

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #7 on: 23.05. 2019 10:19 »
yes point well taken about different text colors etc !

Or...when you hit 'Quote' you can see how quoted text is managed. As you can see I've clipped your text down to the bit I want to reply to.

If you wish you can interleave your replies with the previous post by using the 'quote on' and 'quote off' markers

Please don't continue this discussion here; it will be off-topic

Offline duTch

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #8 on: 23.05. 2019 13:03 »
 
Quote
  duTch.. My parts book shows bearing 65 5883 common to plunger hub and early 1954/55 S/A hub, ...........

 Yo Swarfo ( spell suggestions kept trying 'Dwarfo' lucky I'm onto them *smile*)...I'll grant you that^^, I think I'm thinking of the S/A axle being smaller diameter and spacer stepped at each end which the bearing fits over,  and that gives something to push/ drift against...  not sure the right side bearing will move in enough to do the job but worth a try; am  thinking maybe the Plunger one is a tighter fit   *dunno*
 JW I found the tool,  pics attached, I think all the bits are there...
 
Quote
  before i bang bearings around i just need to see if it fits which it does not

 ...I don't mean you flog foccacia out of the bearings- *bash* just enough of a ' tap' to do the job with heat on the hub/bearing outer...

 
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Online Greybeard

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #9 on: 23.05. 2019 13:08 »
I have a vague memory, (it's my age) of having to remove and replace my wheel bearings because there is something that does what you have found. Maybe a spacer, or summat. Anyone?

Online RichardL

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #10 on: 25.05. 2019 18:13 »
Well, since I, too, am replacing rear wheel bearings right now, there is a lot to appreciate in this thread, especially the axle-as-bearing-press concept. However, that's not my current question.

Looking at the exploded parts diagram on Draganfly's site (below), I see that bearing spacer 67-6027 includes some kind of star-shaped spacer(?) at each end. The diagram in my parts book does not show these stars for the same bearing spacer number (67-6027). The only reason I can think of for the stars is as some kind of grease-flow management, as the '55 hub had a zerk fitting and unsealed bearings. That said, the bearings in my parts book are also unsealed, but no star spacers are shown.  Now, how important is this to me? Marginally. I'm not going to go out looking for star spacers (since I've never had them), and my hub is a riveted type from an A65 that has no zerk and uses sealed bearings. Nevertheless, I'd like to know what I don't know.  Thoughts?

Richard L.
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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #11 on: 25.05. 2019 18:20 »
Those two star shaped bits are flanges that are fixed to a tubular spacer. The flange serves to hold the spacer more or less central. I think the cut-outs in the flange allow the hub rivets to pass over the flanges. My 55 bike has that spacer.

Online RichardL

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #12 on: 25.05. 2019 18:46 »
Neil,

I'm not sure I understand the need for the stars as an aid to centralization, since the bearings do that. I do see the need to slide past rivets when inserting the tube with the attached left-side bearing from the left side. If the notches in the star are solely for passing by rivets, the drawing is inconsistent, as the riveted hub (at least mine) has no zerk fitting and has sealed bearings. Back to the grease flow point, without the notches in the star, it seems unsealed bearings could not be greased. I could see the logic that closing off a portion of the exposed bearing slows the rate at which grease leaves the bearing but does not prevent the bearing from being greased by a pump.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm debating here from a foundation of stupidity (always possible and sometimes revealed), but I just can't completely get around the inconsistencies.   

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #13 on: 25.05. 2019 19:13 »
Richard, no sweat, it is all down to Drags trying to be clever with a composite diagram.

 The plunger hub has a bearing retaining ring on each side. The centre spacer is a tube ( ID the same as the inner races), which fits between the bearings. The "stars" are there to stop it dropping too far down and retain the spacer in approximate position when the spindle is removed. The stars are not loose, they are pressed on to the spacer tube. They end up fitted quite closely to the hub tube ID, so the cut outs are as GB has mentioned, to allow the spacer to pass the hub rivets on assembly.

 The early S/A  is slightly different and has a shouldered spacer which fits into the bore of the centre races and stays in place within the bearings when the spindle is removed. This has no stars, just a raised locating shoulder at each end. As mentioned earlier, there is only one bearing retaining ring, and with this removed, a smack on either end  of the spacer will push a bearing outwards, and enable either race to be removed. It is a much simpler design, easier to assemble, less parts etc, that's progress. The S/A spindle is slightly thinner than the Plunger spindle, as the spacer on the S/A hub has a narrower bore, because it locates within  the bearing inner race bore.

 You need to identify which type of hub and spacer you have, then proceed as outlined. There is enough free space inside either hub to allow easy passage of grease to open bearings. As the basic hub type can have numerous variants there is plenty of scope for wrongly picked parts. It is theoretically possible to build an A65 Crinkle Hub with plunger or S/A bearings and spacer as appropriate and enjoy the cheap option of a replica  rear wheel driven speedo rather than the heavy money original Chrono's command.

 Hope this helps,

 Swarfy.

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Re: removing rear wheel bearings
« Reply #14 on: 25.05. 2019 21:10 »
The plunger hub has a bearing retaining ring on each side. The centre spacer is a tube ( ID the same as the inner races), which fits between the bearings. The stars are there to stop it dropping too far down when the spindle is removed, they are not loose, they are pressed on to the spacer tube. They end up with a fit quite close to the hub tube ID, so the cut outs are as GB has mentioned, to allow the spacer to pass the hub rivets on assembly.
Eloquent!

Richard, when I used the term 'central', I meant in the vertical plane