Author Topic: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)  (Read 457 times)

Online duTch

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #15 on: 09.08. 2019 21:50 »
Has a lot to do with the rake & trail of the forks and gyroscopic of the wheel
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Online muskrat

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #16 on: 09.08. 2019 23:46 »
G'day fellas.
Learning to ride as an 8 year old in the dirt steering with the back wheel (read opposite lock power slides) was the norm. So by the time I was riding on the road counter steering was programed in without thinking.
When hooking into a 60mph corner your putting more weight on the inside bar even if you don't know it.
Newer bikes with large differences in front/rear tyre widths need more counter steer than our old bikes with similar tyre widths.
Cheers
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Online KiwiGF

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #17 on: 10.08. 2019 01:21 »
Pretty much everyone uses counter steering naturally so one probably shouldn’t need to practice, having said that when taking “advanced” riding training it was brought to my attention a real life example of a time when you may need to consciously use the technique is when you are in a long fast corner and find yourself running wide, seemingly no matter what you do  *help* . Gently pushing on the “inside” handlebar can really help in that situation. I also found counter steering really helped on a hill full of bends I used to commute over every day  *smile* , and where a couple of the bends were cambered the “wrong” way, causing many accidents mainly for cars, and bikers came to grief occasionally as well by drifting wide into the centre barrier  *pull hair out*

The other “advanced” technique one naturally uses, but it can be useful to consciously use, is “trail braking”, I’ve personally found this useful only when riding heavy bikes (like a gold wing  *eek* ).

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Online Black Sheep

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #18 on: 10.08. 2019 06:54 »
The other thing I learned if entering a corner faster than is comfortable is to put your weight on the high footrest. Steadies the whole plot up and gets you round the bend rather than up the bank.
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Online beezermacc

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #19 on: 10.08. 2019 09:26 »
Most of the above is nothing to do with avoiding potholes. If you push your bike off the stand in the garage and sit on it without holding the handlebars and lean to the left the front wheel will fall to the left so, to avoid going into the kerb, you need to push on the left of the handlebars slightly. This is due to the fork rake angle. The greater the angle of rake the more pronounced the effect. If the forks were vertical it wouldn't happen. I can guarantee that if you point your bike at a pothole, on a straight and flat road, you will hit it!
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Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #20 on: 10.08. 2019 11:06 »
I was told about countersteering when I first started riding. The explanation was that if I pushed on the left handlebar, the bike would initially try to steer to the right, but my body weight would then cause me fall to the left. This would happen quickly enough that the movement of the bike to the right would be so little as to be not perceptable. My weight would ensure that the bike would be set up for the left hand corner.
That all made sense and still does.
Beezermacc's logical theory has made this simple explanation needing more thought.
Col
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Offline worntorn

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #21 on: 11.08. 2019 15:43 »
Most of the above is nothing to do with avoiding potholes. If you push your bike off the stand in the garage and sit on it without holding the handlebars and lean to the left the front wheel will fall to the left so, to avoid going into the kerb, you need to push on the left of the handlebars slightly. This is due to the fork rake angle. The greater the angle of rake the more pronounced the effect. If the forks were vertical it wouldn't happen. I can guarantee that if you point your bike at a pothole, on a straight and flat road, you will hit it!

And , if at speed and pointed very close to the edge of that pothole, you can shift your trajectory away from it simply by twisting
the bars toward the centre of the pothole.
This will make the bike lean away from the pothole and turn away from it.

Glen

Online RoyC

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #22 on: 11.08. 2019 15:47 »
Does all this only apply to solo bikes or does it include combos ?
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #23 on: 11.08. 2019 15:59 »
does it include combos ?

No, although sidecars are perverse in most other ways.

Online Greybeard

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #24 on: 11.08. 2019 19:58 »
...if at speed and pointed very close to the edge of that pothole, you can shift your trajectory away from it simply by twisting
the bars toward the centre of the pothole.
This will make the bike lean away from the pothole and turn away from it.

That's what I thought should happen

Online duTch

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #25 on: 12.08. 2019 10:27 »

 
Quote
Has a lot to do with the rake & trail of the forks and gyroscopic of the wheel

 So I just asked my youngsta if we've discussed this before and he fairly much confirmed that we have... result being he's on board with the above...

  Having said that, in this part of the world I say that if you try and dodge a pothole by this method, you'll only encounter the real one they are trying to decoy you away from- the ones you can see are just painted on to trick us..... *rant* *rant* *rant*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline berger

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #26 on: 12.08. 2019 11:31 »
it seems to me from comments on potholes all over the place that there is plenty of money for so called traffic calming humps  [that the yuth of today think are launching pads]  but none for the repair of holes. I think the ones who said lets put loads of humps everywhere under the guise of road safety  have shares in tarmac , brakes, suspension, tyres, ball joint makers--- the list goes on. *pull hair out*

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #27 on: 12.08. 2019 11:39 »
Up here steering away from the pothole in front of you guides you to the pothole to the side of you, to be fair to Northumberland CC they do  now make them more visible by putting a yellow ring around them  *conf*
All the best - Bill
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Online duTch

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #28 on: 12.08. 2019 12:38 »

 
Quote
...I think the ones who said lets put loads of humps everywhere ...
Yeah- at the work PUBlunch Wednesday (humpday)....

Quote
Up here steering away from the pothole in front of you guides you to the pothole to the side of you, to be fair to Northumberland CC they do  now make them more visible by putting a yellow ring around them  *conf*

 yep- that's fairly much what I was inferring.....
Quote
  Having said that, in this part of the world I say that if you try and dodge a pothole by this method, you'll only encounter the real one they are trying to decoy you away from- the ones you can see are just painted on to trick us..... *rant* *rant* *rant

   *rant* *rant* *rant* *rant* whoops
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

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Re: Who knows about this? (...counter-steering)
« Reply #29 on: 12.08. 2019 14:57 »
Up here steering away from the pothole in front of you guides you to the pothole to the side of you, to be fair to Northumberland CC they do  now make them more visible by putting a yellow ring around them  *conf*
The yellow ring around them is meant to be so that you can see them and hopefully avoid them thus removing any liability of the local council if you do go down one and cause damage.
One tip I heard was that if you see the local council going round spraying the worst holes for contractors to fill then quickly get some of the same colour paint and spray all the remaining holes and they will get filled too.  >:D

Jim
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