Author Topic: A10 GF rebuild  (Read 2426 times)

Online berger

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #30 on: 09.08. 2020 21:58 »
"if the replicas are made to todays standards they should be better?" *doubt* I can't stop laughing *lol*. nothing I have come across over the last 30 years has been made better than the good old made in England was. we don't make anything anymore it's all made in china and LOOKS like it is very good. the only problem is it isn't very good and ends up in a scrap yard or landfill pretty sharpish. I bought a drill a few weeks ago under the assumption it was made in Belgium. when I got to the bottom of the papers it was made in PRC *pull hair out* the only thing that maybe any good that's Chinese is a takeaway *lol* *lol*

ironhead

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #31 on: 09.08. 2020 23:43 »
Re layshaft - as the bush will need replacing also, why not get the worn area ground until it's clean and then make a bush to suit? That's the usual trick and I did it to my boxes that had scored / worn layshafts. Last one I did was actually bent as well. Dunno how that occurred, but I was a little worried about straightening it, not being aware of the hardening process. If they are through hardened, there is a risk they'll snap, but I managed to avoid that.


All gearbox shafts are case hardened otherwise they would all snap like carrots.

Offline RDfella

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #32 on: 10.08. 2020 13:39 »
"All gearbox shafts are case hardened otherwise they would all snap like carrots.".
Not so, I'm afraid. Many, if not most, axle shafts etc are through-hardened. It's the tempering that's the critical factor.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

ironhead

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #33 on: 11.08. 2020 05:21 »
I was saying gearbox shafts.

Offline Norbert 60

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #34 on: 11.08. 2020 07:10 »
OK, I got the message!

Yesterday I took off and found a shop that will grind me 2 Layshafts and a friend will prepare 2 set of custom bushes.

My idea is to get a gap of 0,03mm. Please comment if this is no good!

It seems as it will be quite cost effective as the quote for regrind is 1 machine h = 70 ~ 75€.
By this I can prepare me 2 Gearboxes with re-ground shafts rather than 1 with NOS or replica for the same cost.🤑

Sorry I didn't upload latest pics, but this will come asap

Cheers and stay healthy in these weird times

Norbert
Regards Norbert

'58 A10 Golden Flash S/A
Germany

ironhead

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #35 on: 11.08. 2020 08:17 »
0.05mm  is good for layshaft bush running clearance.

Offline Norbert 60

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #36 on: 12.08. 2020 15:34 »
Here finally a few pictures.

Basically all paintwork is just cleaned and a bit touched up.
Only the front hub and the lower front mudgard stay are repainted.
Rear wheel has been cleaned and looks not too bad, front rim needed replacement.
I bought a "high quality stainless, made in UK". Look was OK, but it has got a quite big "ditch" at the welding seam.
Unfortunately I could not see before lacing.
It runs quite good as the lateral run out is <0.2mm and in height (except the ditch) also less than 0.2mm.
For sure the wheelbearings were replaced by sealed type bearings.

As told before nexstept is gearbox rebuild.

Finally I'm well within my planning, thanks to the work from home policy of my company, so it looks good that the bike will be ready to visit next years TT! (if it will happen!?!)

Cheers

Norbert
Regards Norbert

'58 A10 Golden Flash S/A
Germany

Offline RDfella

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #37 on: 12.08. 2020 18:41 »
Ironhead, with respect, you seem to have missed the point. I started by referring to your comment that shafts made from through hardened steels would 'snap like a carrot'.
All I was saying is that through hardened steels, as opposed to carburised, are often used as axles, spline shafts, crankshafts etc. For example, types 3140 and 2340. A shaft is not aware whether it is inside a gearbox, axle casing or whatever, so the last comment is superfluous.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline Norbert 60

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #38 on: 22.08. 2020 09:10 »
Gentlemen,
while waiting for the reground layshaft, I am thinking the engine rebuild.
As the conrods have some small marks,- I guess from hitting the crankcases edge in a previous life, I am thinking of replacement.
To avoid crank ballancing original parts would be my first choice.
Draganfly offers "exchange" rods. Is there any info what is done and how the rods are checked?

Cheers

Norbert
Regards Norbert

'58 A10 Golden Flash S/A
Germany

Online Swarfcut

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #39 on: 22.08. 2020 09:58 »
Hi Norbert

     Engine Reconditioners will check rods with varying degrees of care, from a full house X Ray crack detection to a simple visual check.  It is a bit of a gamble, you hope you get what you pay for.

   Rods should be checked for damage, bending and  twisting, any found should be rejected as a first step. Those considered suitable for reconditioning are checked for dimensional tolerance, and as required big end cap faces  are machined off make the big end eye smaller, then re machined to restore the eye to standard size.  Small end bushes are replaced as required, the small end eye is sometimes bored oversize if required, then an oversize OD bush installed, then bored an reamed to fit as usual.  All depends on how rare the parts are and what the market will stand, a well reconditioned rod may cost more than a lucky find new old stock one.

 Beware of "Exchange Rods". They may be just that, having had just a  a quick "Wash and Brush Up" rather than being a  checked, tested and fully reconditioned. More information here.
 
     https://fer.co.uk/

  This is the UK trade body, "The Federation of Engine Remanufacturers" which has standards for its members'products. Worth having a quick looky look at what gets done, bearing in mind most are involved with vehicle rather than motorcycle engines. The FER has links with similar European organisations, so there is some degree of common standards. Having said that, there are some that work to their own less stringent standards but still charge a premium price, so make sure you know what you're getting.

 If your rods check as being OK for further use. a polish out of the nicks and a balance to match them is better than unknown rods chosen at random by some supplier and not even a matched pair.

 

 Swarfy

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #40 on: 22.08. 2020 10:16 »
In my world "exchange rods" means shat for shite, see Swarfy's reply.
In defense I raced my A7 for 9 years and never had an original rod failure. Check'em good (all dimensions) and polish out any nicks.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Norbert 60

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #41 on: 23.08. 2020 18:50 »
OK, I checked the rods and found that I got 2 left ones with the small hole in the big ends. Is that an issue?
The one that was fitted on left side is much better than the one on the right.
The left one was fitted with the hole to the centre (on right of the rod), the right side one had the hole on the right as well, so to the outside of the engine.

So do I need to get me a good conrod without hole or can I use both sides with the hole in?

Cheers

Norbert
Regards Norbert

'58 A10 Golden Flash S/A
Germany

Offline RDfella

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #42 on: 23.08. 2020 19:11 »
When you fit the new shells, fit then so the hole on the RH one is blanked off.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Online Swarfcut

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #43 on: 23.08. 2020 20:17 »
RD  Back in the day the shells came with a hole and without, in the same set. To standardise, all  later shells come with a hole to prevent folks assembling a blank shell where one with a hole should be. So while the sentiment is correct, that may not be possible with today's shells.

 Years ago I bought a late model A10 which had identical rods, both holed as Norbert's. Back then we blocked the timing side rod, but identical rods with a hole appears that this was how they came from the factory as this has been mentioned before on the Forum by folks who were supposedly the first to strip down an unmolested motor. I have stripped motors to find blanked off rods, a  way of getting a runner when only holed drive side rods where available.

 So whether the hole actually does anything at all is my problem.  Somebody somewhere decided there should be a hole. It is only corresponding with the crank oil hole for microseconds, so leaving things as they are is an option as I have my doubts that it actually does anything.

 Norbert.  Hole faces to the flywheel on the timing side, positioning the bearing locating tabs on the non thrust side of the big end bearing shells. Yours is set up correctly. There will be other opinions for you to consider regarding the timing side rod but in the end the choice is yours.

  Swarfy.

Offline Norbert 60

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Re: A10 GF rebuild
« Reply #44 on: 24.08. 2020 15:43 »
Hello Swarfy,


Even the holes are relatively small, I wonder if there is a loss of oil pressure.
Also I do believe that the highest flow through the hole is, when it passes the lubrication wedge (I hope it's the right english expression for the oil wedge that builds up due rotation) as this creates a higher pressure than the pump can deliver.

I will get my layshaft back tomorrow and hopefully get the bushes next week, so I will start to polish the rods this weekend.

Cheers

Norbert
Regards Norbert

'58 A10 Golden Flash S/A
Germany