Author Topic: Oil pump priming  (Read 1000 times)

Offline Andreas Larsen

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Oil pump priming
« on: 05.03. 2017 13:04 »
Hey guys!

I've been doing somewhat of a rebuild of my a10 during winter and have now changed oil pump to an SRM one.

As per instructions, it says to prime the oil pump before startup. The instructions read, "turn over engine gently using the kick-starter until a good amount of oil flows from the PRV housing".

My problem is this; no matter how much I turn over the engine, no oil flows from the PRV housing - when I look into the oil tank I can see oil returning to the tank. So my question is, has the oil pump now been primed properly since oil is in fact returning to the tank, or have I done something wrong in the install of the new pump?

I hope you can help!

Regards Andreas
'58 A10 swingarm

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #1 on: 05.03. 2017 16:42 »
Well, we know the pump is working and primed, now the question is: why is no oil spilling from the PRV hole? Did you remove the whole PRV or just the cap? If just the cap, I am guessing (emphasis on "guessing") that the body of the valve is presenting enough resistance to flow to prevent oil splilling past it based on the low pressure from kicking. Maybe there's some sludge or something clogging entry to the valve.

Looking forward to validation, or the real reason, being shared by someone who is not guessing (or more guesses).

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Andreas Larsen

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #2 on: 05.03. 2017 16:57 »
I removed the whole thing. When I turn over the engine I feel the air pressure, but no oil though. I'll look if there is some sludge blocking anything.

On a side note the PRV unit looked fairly clean when I removed it.
'58 A10 swingarm

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #3 on: 05.03. 2017 17:00 »
By the way, I did this same procedure when I got my SRM pump and I did get oil from the PRV hole.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Andreas Larsen

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #4 on: 06.03. 2017 22:17 »
Question..

Reading through the instructions for the SRM pump it mentions "3. Re-fit the oil pump ball and spring A50,A65 (A7,A10 Needle Roller Conversion)."

If the bike is stock, does it then still have the oil pump ball and spring or is it only on needle roller converted ones?
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Online trevinoz

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #5 on: 06.03. 2017 22:29 »
The ball and spring should be there behind the oil pump. Stick a piece of wire down the hole to check.

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #6 on: 07.03. 2017 04:09 »

"3. Re-fit the oil pump ball and spring A50,A65 (A7,A10 Needle Roller Conversion)."


This is confusing wording and it took me few minutes to figure out. As I understand it, in A50's, A65's and A7/10's with needle roller conversions, the ball and spring are inserted behind the pump while the pump is off. As Trev points out, in stock A7/10's, the ball and spring are captive in the timing-side crankcase half and you can only know if it's there by removing the pump and feeling for it through its hole. (Of course, I welcome correction, if needed.)


All that said, a missing oil retaining ball would not be the cause of oil not coming out of the PRV hole with the PRV removed.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Scott and Jay

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #7 on: 07.03. 2017 22:37 »
Hi,

You have to have oil coming out the PRV housing. When I did it I was told to take the supply line off the oil tank and put an oil can spout down it. I did this and the spout fitted neatly into the supply oil hose - so pumping the oil can forced oil down. I did this while turning the engine and then I got oil coming out of the PRV. If you don't get to this stage the pump's not primed and you could get air bubbles blocking the supply...

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #8 on: 07.03. 2017 23:52 »
Hi All
Richards description of where the ball locates is correct
(except where plain bearing A's have been converted to the later system)

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #9 on: 08.03. 2017 00:28 »
Hi,

You have to have oil coming out the PRV housing. When I did it I was told to take the supply line off the oil tank and put an oil can spout down it. I did this and the spout fitted neatly into the supply oil hose - so pumpieng the oil can forced oil down. I did this while turning the engine and then I got oil coming out of the PRV. If you don't get to this stage the pump's not primed and you could get air bubbles blocking the supply...

But Scott, Andreas has said that oil is returning to the tank, which, to me, says "primed." Do you think I'm missing something? If Andreas is correct about this, it is a mystery how no oil comes out the PRV hole.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Scott and Jay

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #10 on: 08.03. 2017 01:48 »
Yes, granted Richard. However, that is what I had to do to get oil coming out of the PRV on mine. This primed the "supply" side. I can't remember if I already had oil coming back on the "return" side..

Online RichardL

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #11 on: 08.03. 2017 03:57 »
Ahh! You might have touched it! Perhaps the sump was full and pumping out of the sump was occurring without drawing in oil on the supply side. I realize I might have a handful of straw with this.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline Andreas Larsen

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #12 on: 10.03. 2017 11:15 »
Thank you all for the replies!

I'll test out the method with the oil can as described and see if that won't work.

Regards
Andreas
'58 A10 swingarm

Offline Dipstick

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Re: Oil pump priming
« Reply #13 on: 03.05. 2020 18:02 »
Hi,

You have to have oil coming out the PRV housing. When I did it I was told to take the supply line off the oil tank and put an oil can spout down it. I did this and the spout fitted neatly into the supply oil hose - so pumping the oil can forced oil down. I did this while turning the engine and then I got oil coming out of the PRV. If you don't get to this stage the pump's not primed and you could get air bubbles blocking the supply...

For me this was a the perfect method to prime the SRM pump.  Apparently I've had some airbubbles in the system too and could kick as a mad man without any oil oil coming out of the PRV.  Just connecting an oil can to an old oil hose solved the problem. 

What a great forum this is  *smile*

'78 XT500, '59 A7, '20 T700