Author Topic: LED Info & Electrickery  (Read 1017 times)

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1036
  • Karma: 20
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #15 on: 17.12. 2019 13:56 »
I use LED stop/tail and speedo rev counter.  The original speedo bulbs frequently blew with vibration the LEDs dont.

Have tried LED BPF headlight but found they had very poor beam pattern, tried 3 different ones. Too expensive for further experiment

Tried LED H4 but they had a bulky heat sink.

Now use a 35/35 12 volt HS1 bulb in an old flat glass Lucas H4 light unit (better beam pattern than the "new" Lucas domed glass ones)

Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2030
  • Karma: 32
    • BSA National
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #16 on: 17.12. 2019 22:33 »
Well you are right & your are wrong.
Firstly unless you have fitted new field windings & armatures your old 3L's will not be putting out their stated 80 Watts to start with probably closer to 40 to 60 Watts.
Then yo can start looking at all of the old switches with weak springs and arc burn on the contacts followed by grubby oxadized bullets usually with less than 1/2 of the original wires still intact.
It is always fun to measure the voltage at the globe contacts on the bikes of people rubbishing Lucas electrics.
IT is generally around the 3-4 V mark, thus you have to be running fast enough to be producing the full 7.5V in order to get something better than 5 at the globe.
Ask riders when was the last time they cleaned ALL of the contacts on their regulators & most could not even tell you where they are .
Way back in 1956 there was a 4 page spread in The Motorcycle "Are you running Negelectrics ?".
We used to reprint it in The Banter from time to time, when bad lights happened to be topical.
At the ABR's people would ask me what I had done to make my headlight so good, what secret globe / genny/ regulator was I running.
The answer was a rewire with new blade connectors and replating the  reflector.
Put most bikes on the stand, and give then a fistfull with the lights on and just about every headlamp will flicker because the switches are worn out, particularly the dip switch if fitted. solution is new switches or as I am prone to do relays , particularly the double pole double throw for switching beams so you are never left in the dark unless an element blows. ( you can even use a 2nd relay to switch the lights on & off.

Some times making things more complicated actually does make them better.

I too got bitten by the LED bug but in my case it was because my globes are no longer being made and the remaining stock are all past their use by dates so when given a good shake, the cement fails and the glass drops off into the reflector or the elements simply burn up.
Thus I was forced to go either for high pressure halogens or LEDs.
The lower power consumption of LED's reeled me in hook line & sinker but I am yet to find one that throws more useable light than the std 25/25 tungsten globe.
Same as Julian, the wallet was fed up with buying very expensive globes that just did not throw sufficient light to ride by.
Excellent light to read a map by but just not enough to be able to see the road at much more than a brisk walking pace.

As Black Sheep noted, the new stop / tail globes are brilliant and I now use one that throws a very strong pencil beam of light back that you can see for miles.
So much better than the "bulbs that last 4 ever " circuit board fitted to the A65 which had very poor beam spread from the 5 deg LED's used on the board.
OTOH it is still there & still works although I have not ridden the A65 for quite some time.

The best light I even had from a 6V system was to toss the Lucas reflector & fit a VW Kombi one then use the 6V halogen VW aftermarket globe.
This was fitted to the B40 , gave excellent light and ran for decades without any problems.

As for the blind farts who can not see unless they are throwing 10,000,000 lumens of miss aligned light illuminating everything in a 5 mile radius from either side of their of their wanker waggons, yes they are a nuisense.
I have 2 std practices to overcome them if they are behind
1) go down through the gears till the bike is at a crawl till they pass
2) swerve abruptly onto the verge till they are gone .
Some times they even stop to offer assistance which when time permits allows me to explain how they are making it very dangerous for other road users with their excessive light and on a couple of time the villian has agreed to sit on my bike with my lights on while their partner turns their bitumen melting appartus on & off.
Usually they appologise as they had no idea just how strong the shadow of their lights was.

As for cars coming the other way all you can do is use the "night eye" trick.
As they approach , close one eye and watch your verge .
Once they have gone past switch eyes, give the blinded eye 30 seconds or so to recover then reopen it.
If you still see a red ring, close it again.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline olev

  • Brisbane, Australia
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 517
  • Karma: 3
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #17 on: 17.12. 2019 23:28 »
If you are replacing a brake/tail light with an LED, be sure to order one with independent circuit design or you may end up having troubles like Roger.
What 'Taillights with Brake Lights' in the attached link doesn't tell you is the taillight combination circuits used on cars can give a lower voltage feedback into the taillight circuit when braking unless designed with diodes to prevent this.
There is no problem with this unless you have other lights wired common with the taillight.

cheers

www.lunaraccents.com/LED-taillight-circuit.html


Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #18 on: 18.12. 2019 03:07 »
 
Quote
...oncoming traffic did seem to push the light back into the battery..

 In reality probably a case of facing the resistance of outgoing electrons, the aforementioned photons being compressed into the black hole on the headlight shell *eek*

 BS and RD, I was referring to trying a 6V 65/65W halogen which on an unimpeded journey may well function (maxed out) just ok, but in a around town situation just didn't go so well, especially if trying to regenerate the battery depleted from period of extra slow/stationary light usage
 But as I won't pretend I'm qualified to debate electrics, Trev's ^^above^^ story fairly covers it..... *beer* *beer*

Nb- where I am, the sunlight runs out by 18:42 (6:42pm) at this time of year until 04:49 am / 04:44 (earliest)
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 718
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #19 on: 18.12. 2019 06:20 »
So much is down to wiring and contacts. Don't seem to have any problems sourcing 6 or 12V BPF bulbs. Even the humble 30/24 isn't bad for unlit roads at 50 mph - but anything modern with banks of photon cannons does make life challenging...
A big problem is the ageing population. Old folks* just can't see well (or at all) in the dark. Car manufacturers compensate by giving them searchlights. Add on the other things for older drivers, automatic light switches lest they forget, warnings if wandering off-lane, auto collision braking, auto parking and it leaves us old fashioned rider-input motorcyclists out on a limb.
Auto lighting is dangerous. If a stretch of road has patches of light and dark, the headlights automatically switch on and off. Are they flashing for some reason? Will something come out of a side turning in the mistaken belief that they are being signalled out?
Apologies for a bit of a rant. Think of me when I take the Velo out after dark with its 40 watt Miller dynamo. With sunset today at 15:38, it's the season of night riding.
*That's anyone even older than me.     
Good Advice
0
No reactions
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6367
  • Karma: 35
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #20 on: 18.12. 2019 10:34 »
The current, pig ugly, Land Rover Discoveries appear to have been designed with a light beam aimed at my door mirror. Feckers!
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2030
  • Karma: 32
    • BSA National
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #21 on: 18.12. 2019 10:38 »
So much is down to wiring and contacts. Don't seem to have any problems sourcing 6 or 12V BPF bulbs. Even the humble 30/24 isn't bad for unlit roads at 50 mph - but anything modern with banks of photon cannons does make life challenging...
A big problem is the ageing population. Old folks* just can't see well (or at all) in the dark. Car manufacturers compensate by giving them searchlights. Add on the other things for older drivers, automatic light switches lest they forget, warnings if wandering off-lane, auto collision braking, auto parking and it leaves us old fashioned rider-input motorcyclists out on a limb.
Auto lighting is dangerous. If a stretch of road has patches of light and dark, the headlights automatically switch on and off. Are they flashing for some reason? Will something come out of a side turning in the mistaken belief that they are being signalled out?
Apologies for a bit of a rant. Think of me when I take the Velo out after dark with its 40 watt Miller dynamo. With sunset today at 15:38, it's the season of night riding.
*That's anyone even older than me.   

If the road melters were all over 60 I could understand it but the bulk would be in the 20 to 40 bracket.
usually in a V8 urban tank that comes std with 100/150 watt globes, more than enough for blind old Mr McGoo.


Way back there was a light demonstration in one of our science museums ( MAA&S , now called The Powerhouse )
It was very instructive and showed how too much light can cause things to vanish ( magicians use it regularly ).
Unfortunately the new sofisticates running the place think it is soo "old fashioned" that it has been dissmantled.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 704
  • Karma: 9
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #22 on: 18.12. 2019 12:20 »
If you are replacing a brake/tail light with an LED, be sure to order one with independent circuit design or you may end up having troubles like Roger.
What 'Taillights with Brake Lights' in the attached link doesn't tell you is the taillight combination circuits used on cars can give a lower voltage feedback into the taillight circuit when braking unless designed with diodes to prevent this.
There is no problem with this unless you have other lights wired common with the taillight.

cheers

www.lunaraccents.com/LED-taillight-circuit.html
This may be jumping from one thread to another but reading the above from Olev is where I believe I went wrong. My bike's bulbs were bought from Paul Goff, 12V BPF 35/35 Quartz Halogen & tail/stop LED a couple of years ago and I've had no problems and I'm confident he makes sure the ones he sells are suitable for bikes. My problem started with the sidecar when I had to add more lights. Those LEDs were bought from Classic Car LEDs. Running out of other options I'd already come to that conclusion and as previously mentioned my intention is to replace them with ones from Paul Goff in the New Year.

My GF had already been converted to 12V when I bought it and although changing it back to 6V may be kinder to the charging system I haven't had a reason or inclination to do that but instead opted to fit a DVR2 and a belt drive to improve the output of the original 6V E3L dynamo. My A10 needs to be doing about 38 - 40 mph in top for the DVR2 to cut in, which is an improvement to what is was like before (needed to be doing about 50 mph). I don't think you can compare how an A7 or A10 with a 6V system behaves re charging etc. to one that has been converted to 12V without it having a complete upgrade of the dynamo. My previous two A10s and several other British bikes I've owned over the years were all 6V. I never had any complaints about that with any of them, so I'm not saying that to convert to 12V is better or the way to go. At the moment it's what I've got and with extra lights to power I'm trying to do what I can to balance things.

(Edit) Not guilty of old wiring, worn out switches, corroded connectors, etc.

Good Advice
0
No reactions

1960 Golden Flash

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 718
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #23 on: 18.12. 2019 15:05 »
When I converted my A7 to 12 v I replaced the armature and field coil with rather splendid American made items. Loads balance out at about 33 mph so not bad. Headlight is a 50/40 BPF. The conversion was to allow the use of heated grips. Pretty much essential if you are covering a distance in winter.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1036
  • Karma: 20
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #24 on: 18.12. 2019 18:50 »
My A10, with bulbs as earlier entry, is 12 volt, using 6 volt armature and field coil JG regulator and DVR dynamo belt drive, balances at 30-33mph.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline cyclobutch

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1549
  • Karma: 14
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #25 on: 19.12. 2019 17:19 »
I’m using an LED combination rear/brake LED that I plugged straight into the original holder. I’m still on 6V and wanted as much as was available going up front. One thing to watch out for is when the bike has stood for a while and the voltage off the battery has dropped a bit. They then don’t work and get you looking for connectivity issues that aren’t there. 

On modern overly bright car lighting, beyond not being able to see past them (or anything really), the light clusters are designed so poorly that you have no chance of seeing an indicator flashing amongst all that luminescence.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Warning - observations made by this member have a 93% unreliability rating.

Of Bikes; various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5512
  • Karma: 64
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #26 on: 19.12. 2019 20:34 »
Quote
On modern overly bright car lighting, beyond not being able to see past them (or anything really), the light clusters are designed so poorly that you have no chance of seeing an indicator flashing amongst all that luminescence.

Agreed
Good Advice
0
No reactions
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 704
  • Karma: 9
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #27 on: 19.12. 2019 21:02 »
My A10, with bulbs as earlier entry, is 12 volt, using 6 volt armature and field coil JG regulator and DVR dynamo belt drive, balances at 30-33mph.

That's interesting, my dynamo belt is SRM, so it's DVR2 versus JG regulator, or dynamo condition.  Has your dynamo been recondition Julian?  Mine hasn't (not during my time anyway).  I have, however, replaced the wiring, connectors and brushes in the last couple of years and give the D and F contacts a clean now and again.

Looking at Dynamo Regulators information it seems 38 mph is about as good as I can expect.

https://dynamoregulators.com/documents/improved%20charging%20for%20BSA.pdf

Good Advice
0
No reactions

1960 Golden Flash

Offline mikeb

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 579
  • Karma: 12
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #28 on: 19.12. 2019 21:41 »
Quote
Looking at Dynamo Regulators information it seems 38 mph is about as good as I can expect.
also i think the srm belt kits have a larger diameter pully on the dynamo end than the DVR belt kits, so srm's spin more slowly / need higher engine revs for volts. I got the srm kit before I learned this. so Roger you and I need to ride a bit faster!
Good Advice
0
No reactions
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '18 Triumph Street Triple RS

Online berger

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 1283
  • Karma: 7
  • keith.chesterfield uk 500sscafe.norbsa project
Re: LED Info & Electrickery
« Reply #29 on: 20.12. 2019 12:49 »
i think you should knock it down a cog and get it charging if it worries you, I used to do just that until fitting a belt drive that now charges at about 1800 revs and 30ish in top gear, that is with 12volt conversion on the A sev. somebody mentioned putting their hand in front of the headlamp to make sure it is working, well I still do it , it's a habbit that has never left me but I only do this in daytime riding because I don't go out in the dark- it's scary that dark is. RIGHT!! its Friday and I am oorfff to the barley pop shop, thankyou for listening and a merry Christmas to all our readers  *beer* *beer* and you people with the terrible threat of the fires down under - try and stay safe it doesn't look good on our TV reports *eek*
Good Advice
0
No reactions