Author Topic: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)  (Read 1368 times)

Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #30 on: 26.02. 2020 18:27 »
got into the garage today got the crankcase split 3 spacer shims on the drive side breaking up all have concaved as some of you have said the drive sprocket not tight created end float .how tight should the drive side main bearing be on the crank bearing pulled out of the outer race.no other issues found but will change the camshaft to worn for me to put back in.it has a 357 cam fitted will fitting a 356 cam affect performance as I want bottom end grunt and easy starting more than top end .that's probably why two head gaskets were fitted .the cam followers have no where at all will they be ok with the new cam thanks

56 GF plunger, 63 SR

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #31 on: 26.02. 2020 19:34 »
G'day Mt.
Theres your problem. The cush nut should be done up to 65 ft/lb. I use the Citroen tool ( https://tinyurl.com/uea2y3z ) and an air rattle gun set on 4. The un-worn followers will be fine on a new cam. The 356 will be better for you.
You will need to establish the size of the new shim stack (one is best or the least number to get the size). Which means putting back together without any shims and checking end float then stripping down again to insert the shims behind the bearing. A bit of work but worth it.
Cheers
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Online chaterlea25

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #32 on: 26.02. 2020 20:37 »
hi Mt
While the engine is apart measure the timing side crank and bush, ideal clearance is 0.0015in. worn out at 0.003in.
Inspect big end bearings and clean the crank sludge trap
Check the pressure relief valve too, and wash out all the oilways
The cam and followers are the first parts to suffer when oil pressure is low
Maybe you just dodged a bullet?

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #33 on: 03.03. 2020 20:11 »
 pulled the engine  to all its single components the pressure release valve the gauze made up with bits of silicone got the sludge trap blank out that was the same timing side bush ok crank and shells ok but will put new big end shells in not that expensive is it worth changing the big end bolts. so that may be the reason for the camshaft wear.no hurry to rebuild will sit on it ,I find if I take the time I get the parts at a more reasonable price .looks like the t150 will be my classic brit ride this spring

56 GF plunger, 63 SR

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #34 on: 03.03. 2020 23:02 »
some will say change the big end bolts while its in bits, but I didn't a long time ago and didn't have a walky talky wrench , I just pulled the nuts up by feel and then thrashed the thing mercilessly for miles . when I stripped the engine a few years ago after putting the oil pipes on the wrong way *pull hair out* *bash* I treated it to new bolts and still thrash it *whistle*

Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #35 on: 16.03. 2020 19:55 »
had chance to get in the shed got the crank on the bench big ends fine but will change the shells,got the sludge trap out bits of silicon  got there but clean .what are the 3 bolts in the flywheel for. ring gap is 28th bores very glazed will need the bores honing and a set of new rings.loads to do that will keep my hands covered in oil and grease the best protection for what's going on

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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #36 on: 16.03. 2020 21:05 »
 Big journal crank has 3 radial bolts. Two secure the flywheel to the crank. The third bolt, pointing towards the big end journals also secures the flywheel, but in addition locates and secures a removable tube which acts as an additional trap. Looking through the hole, you think its nice and clear, but remove that third bolt and extract the tube. Some are reluctant to come out and require considerable violence, guile, threats etc to get out. More sludge will then be revealed.

  Established wisdom is to replace that bolt with new and seal with Loctite. Measure the journals, wear limit before a regrind is 2 thou.

 Swarfy.

Online JulianS

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #37 on: 16.03. 2020 21:20 »
Beware the flywheel bolts. Had one sheer at speed and wreck an engine.

Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #38 on: 17.03. 2020 12:41 »
Thanks for that info swarfy  with all 3 bolts out I will  not miss  align things if i need to be brutal  to get the second  sludge  trap out

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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #39 on: 17.03. 2020 16:40 »
   The tube will come out when the plugs and just that bolt is removed. Leave the other two bolts in place, and if you decide to renew all three, do them one at a time.
   Having said that the flywheel is usually a shrink fit onto the crank, and will have to be to be pressed off if removal is required. Crank grinding can be done with the flywheel in place, so unless you have another problem, leave it in place.

   Note which sealing plug goes where. The drive side plug has a tit which locates and seals the narrow end of the tube. The plug  on the timing side is plain and must not be screwed in further than the face of the crank cheek.  Screwing it in too far risks blocking the oilway from the timing side main journal. The tube should drive out towards the timing side.

 Swarfy.

Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #40 on: 17.03. 2020 21:46 »
Thanks for that swarfy will have a look tomorrow 

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #41 on: 17.03. 2020 22:55 »
I find that the new tubes and plugs supplied by the various sources don't fit very well. I have to skim the fat end of the tube and tidy up the thin end so that the plug with a nose makes a proper seal and holds it centrally in the oil gallery. You might want to have a look at this link on the Cheshire BSA Club's website....
https://edfb01e4-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/cheshirebsa/files/sludge-trap.JPG?attachauth=ANoY7cobWbbtxdOjdcjXJY21Zp8imO0Zlr_L1tltfDIqIBdxFyJzRzipEI9XN0uHXXCylQkvDbztrtv_VHIiUqxFne15pJY5BVZE5H6T_L-MDUUnbX_yz5arQfZrmHG33U-PT8md8XVM4f-q8mCPVUfD3oDZDmOW60bDIY4t_K1oECBUVcH0prWChS_LFjsj2ct4PVGgTjA8DjG7_XEHzLEnGi_aUX4awccIq05agKP9e7_tTGEAs0A%3D&attredirects=0
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Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #42 on: 18.03. 2020 11:08 »
Thanks for that info I take photos  of everything  and have  just  looked  at the order I dismantled  the sludge  trap the tube was correct  the bungs  were  the wrong  way round.i have built  lots of engines  over the years modern  engine's  are more complex  in there  design  but less  complex  in there  assembley. I have found  out that the a10 engine  is now a expensive  piece  of kit to rebuild  to a good  spec there is a vast  difference  in price  on some items  ,the cam ranges  from £125 TO £250 big end shells  £28 to £70 .I know  the experience  choice  is not necessarily  the best this is were the welf  of knowledge  on forums like this come in to play. Thanks  for all the info I will  be asking  many  more  before  she is back on the road

56 GF plunger, 63 SR

Offline Radlan2

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #43 on: 23.03. 2020 21:45 »
Hi Mtrower  + all others
       An important point was made by charterlea at the start of this thread, I know this from my experience. When the cushdrive comes loose it can wear the drive side of the crankshaft where the bearing fits. I thought I had struck gold with a basket case crank which was standard except for a 0.010 undersized main, however I did note that that where the inner bearing fitted was a bit polished.
      On assembly I found it difficult to set the endfloat plus I was getting a tight spot when turning the crank by hand when the cases were tightened. I found that the end face of the inner bearing had ground it's way into the web face of the crank, and it was also out of true which caused the inner face to tilt slightly when the drive side nut was tightened. I made up a distance sleeve to use instead of the cushdrive arrangement. Once the face was machined true, with a generous radius to maintain the strength and the correct endfloat spacer made, the tight spot disappeared. Worth checking?
     Best Regs
          Chris

Offline Mtrower

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Re: my fault i think (nock from the engine, crank end float)
« Reply #44 on: 04.04. 2020 20:40 »
got a good 2nd hand camshaft it is a 356 not a 357 that was in the engine the old cam was well kn*****d so will not notice the difference.Hepolite I am thinking of putting in new big end shells and piston rings are they as bad as people are saying as there is lots of companys selling hepolite I know they come under Chinese rubbish but I buy lots of Chinese so called rubbish on my custom builds and its very good most of the time

56 GF plunger, 63 SR