Author Topic: Smoking!  (Read 728 times)

Online TimK

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Smoking!
« on: 15.03. 2020 08:37 »
Hi Everyone
Since I fitted a new barrel and JP pistons the right hand cylinder has been smoking on start up. It clears after a mile or two so I'm tempted to give it a damn good ignoring - am I courting disaster or should I just keep on riding?
Cheers
Tim
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Tim Kerridge
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Offline Slymo

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #1 on: 15.03. 2020 08:44 »
I've had no joy with JP rings. I rode a B44 for a thousand miles and it never bedded in. Ended up fitting new rings of a different brand and they never puffed a wiff of smoke. My feeling is that if they don't seal straight away they are never going to.  Check to see if your oil is black in no time. If it is you have blow by and it will never behave properly.
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #2 on: 15.03. 2020 09:46 »
 Get some miles on it, a possible cause is the oil which accumulates in the sump on standing being scavenged, hence exhaust clears after a short distance. Try leaning the bike to the left on start up, left cylinder may also start to smoke. No noise or other symptoms? Oil returning as it should in a stream and gulp on idle?  All OK?   Ride like you stole it to break the bore glaze, yes, a DAMN GOOD IGNORING.

 Modern oils, our fastidious cleanliness and pussyfoot break in procedures often result in the scenario outlined by Slymo.  I go for the cheapest oil, the "suitable for older engines plain wrapper Supermarket Own Brand cheapo crap" for the first fill. The lubricating properties are adequate, but at this price it does not contain the exotic ant-wear, anti oxidant and other additives that contribute to this initial problem of poor ring sealing.

Swarfy.
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #3 on: 15.03. 2020 13:47 »
JP use rings that are way way too hard.
Despite regular request to supply the piston bare he insists on sending them with his duff rings.
If you fitted the piston with the supplied rings, it will smoke and probably get a lot worse before they finally bed in and we are talking around  500 to 1000 miles .
If you go the ignore route, just remember to keep an eye on the oil.
A member rode his C10 fited with the JP rings ( against everyones advice ) from Croydon to Warragamba to see me ( Sydney of course )
When he got here it had stopped smoking.
There was no oil left in the tank
HE used another 2L to get back home , went to Trojan, bought & fitted some Hastings rings ( dry ) and has not a problem with the rings since.
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Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #4 on: 15.03. 2020 21:54 »
Hi Tim,
My Golden Flash smoked badly on the LHS cylinder, After replacing the rings, no change. I pulled it down again and discovered that the LHS piston was tilted L to R by 10 thou. I have had the small end bushes replaced and reamed square. Only point I can add to the other advice is to check that both pistons are level within a thou or two if you have to pull the cylinders, obviously before you pull the cylinders.
Colin
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Online TimK

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #5 on: 15.03. 2020 23:08 »
Thanks everyone,

I think I can cope with putting some miles on it (whilst keeping an eye on the oil level) to see if it clears. As I said it clears very quickly once I set off so I'm pretty sure it's not a broken/incorrectly gapped ring or valve guide problem. I'll let you know if (when) it clears up.

Cheers

Tim
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Tim Kerridge
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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #6 on: 16.03. 2020 19:14 »
G'day Tim.
How many miles has she done? Can you do a compression test cold then again hot? Hold throttle wide open and give 10 kicks as quickly as you can.
Cheers
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'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Online TimK

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #7 on: 17.03. 2020 06:07 »
G'day Tim.
How many miles has she done? Can you do a compression test cold then again hot? Hold throttle wide open and give 10 kicks as quickly as you can.
Cheers
Hi Musky
The valves were reground about 500 miles ago and she's only done about 50 miles on the rebore/new pistons. I havent done a compression test but the effort needed to kick her over doesn't seem to change much hot or cold.
Cheers
Tim
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Tim Kerridge
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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #8 on: 17.03. 2020 10:32 »
G'day Tim.
After 50 miles the rings should have bed in.
Is she wet sumping at all? Try dropping the sump plate to drain the sump before the ext cold start just to eliminate that.
Cheers
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #9 on: 17.03. 2020 17:00 »
   This tendency for the oil to exit the  oil tank into the sump explains the popularity of the aftermarket sump plates with a handy single drain plug. One of the best, cost effective and convenient upgrades that fits all models from a '47 Longstroke to the last A70. Saves the hassle of shearing those pesky little studs or pulling the threads in the alloy cases.

 Swarfy.
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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #10 on: 17.03. 2020 19:21 »
G'day Tim.
Bugga, I had a spare one you could've had.  *sad*
Cheers
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'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Online TimK

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #11 on: 17.03. 2020 20:33 »
G'day Tim.
After 50 miles the rings should have bed in.
Is she wet sumping at all? Try dropping the sump plate to drain the sump before the ext cold start just to eliminate that.
Cheers
Hi Musky
She used to wet sump - my own fault, I'm not riding her regularly enough - but I've fitted one of 'the magneto guys' oil taps with magneto cut out so that's not the issue.
Cheers
Tim
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Offline Slymo

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #12 on: 18.03. 2020 02:19 »
Mine was apparently wet sumping but I discovered that the oil pump was leaking from the gasket. A careful flat file to face off the back of the pump and a new gasket with a re tightening after a few miles sorted that. I would get the best part of 1/2 a pint of oil out of the timing cover after the bike had been sitting a while now there is no more than a couple of tablespoons in there. I reiterate though if they are JP rings and they havent sealed straight away they probably never will. I put Gandini rings in mine and gave the bore a light hone before assembling it dry. It has never made a puff of smoke since and after an 800 mile journey over two days the oil was not noticeably down and was still clean as a whistle.
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Online berger

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #13 on: 18.03. 2020 10:39 »
gandinis  swear by them - I do not own the company, I have had trouble with rings from firms that you would say are well known for BSA spares and many waste of time arguments, Gandinis sorted the job very impressed with them
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Online TimK

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Re: Smoking!
« Reply #14 on: 18.03. 2020 23:01 »
gandinis  swear by them - I do not own the company, I have had trouble with rings from firms that you would say are well known for BSA spares and many waste of time arguments, Gandinis sorted the job very impressed with them
Mine was apparently wet sumping but I discovered that the oil pump was leaking from the gasket. A careful flat file to face off the back of the pump and a new gasket with a re tightening after a few miles sorted that. I would get the best part of 1/2 a pint of oil out of the timing cover after the bike had been sitting a while now there is no more than a couple of tablespoons in there. I reiterate though if they are JP rings and they havent sealed straight away they probably never will. I put Gandini rings in mine and gave the bore a light hone before assembling it dry. It has never made a puff of smoke since and after an 800 mile journey over two days the oil was not noticeably down and was still clean as a whistle.

Thanks Guys

Gandinis do seem to get consistently good reviews on the forum. I'm going to give her a couple of hundred miles to settle down, but if that doesn't do it I think Gandinis will be the go. The current smoking isn't a problem when I'm riding as it clears rapidly, but the smoke when I start her up might upset the neighbours if it continues too much longer.

Cheers

Tim
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Tim Kerridge
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