Author Topic: Drive side main bearing  (Read 1881 times)

Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #30 on: 18.04. 2020 12:31 »
Thanks RDFella for the Mics thoughts. I have digital to 0.0005" but like you I don't trust them. However they were cheap!!
Swarfy, I had to machine about 3mm off the inner end of the sleeve bearing some time ago to align the sprockets. Before assembly, I put the sleeve on without the spring etc to make sure it would go a little further on the spline than needed. All OK there.
BTW, regarding the plastic cage on the NJ206, I had a thought that once it is located in the Drive side crankcase, to remove it with heat above 120 Deg C would mean a replacement - one downside of this arrangement. However I would try dropping the case in boiling water 100 Deg C first, chill the outer bearing and see if it would come out. I got the spare bearing in case.
Col
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #31 on: 19.04. 2020 12:13 »
Col,
They came from a stash of stuff I bought at auction.
No case & no calibration block either but I have checked them against internal micrometer and one of them is 0.0003" out
The internals did not come with a calibration sleeve either.
For the stuff we do a normal 0.001 +/- .0005" is more than good enough just so long as it is properly calibrated and you use the block for temperature corrections.
Having never done this before we of course went overboard.
What was interesting was all of the bearings were different widths , We had 3 old ones removed from crank cases .
I do not watch TV so have a ton of indoor time to do things like haunt industrial auctions.
I suspect in the near future there will be rich pickings as a lot of small engineering business will not survive the Virus. 
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #32 on: 19.04. 2020 12:45 »
Hi Trevor,
You will be right about small engineering business failures, just when we need them more than ever. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
I decided to buy two identical bearings, and use one  inner ground loose as a spacer tool. I haven't measured them yet, but if the widths of the inner rings are only a thou or two different, then I should be able to correct for difference and go very close on the first trial shim measurement. I got a third one as a spare for any future failures. A$143 incl. freight to the shop for three isn't a bad price. Hopefully I'll never need to purchase one again.
Col
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #33 on: 20.04. 2020 09:24 »
So you are going to remember where you left taht bearing in 15 year time are you ?
Yeh right.
I bought 5 copper head gaskets from Lannin to make up the minimum freight weight 3 years ago and I can't find them.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online Butch (cb)

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #34 on: 20.04. 2020 09:27 »
Where do you find micrometers to 0.0001"?

Looks like a normal mic but has a little vernier scale on the barrel for tenths.
Warning - observations made by this member have a 93% unreliability rating.

Of Bikes; various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #35 on: 21.04. 2020 00:30 »
Yes Trevor I have a foolproof system. Now where did I leave it.?
Thanks Cyclobutch. I haven't seen any, but will keep an eye open.
Col
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #36 on: 21.04. 2020 07:43 »
Where do you find micrometers to 0.0001"?

Looks like a normal mic but has a little vernier scale on the barrel for tenths.

Thats the animal and you need reading glasses plus a good magnifier to read it .
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online berger

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #37 on: 27.04. 2020 12:53 »
if I remember correctly there was some discussion on which way the inner race of the drive side roller bearing fitted to the crank web on swingarm bikes regarding pulling it back off again? well I have two old and one new of these bearings, two are the same make and the other a different make that I had a good look at whilst playing in the shed, and I discovered you can't go wrong if you look where the outer race has been ground and fit the inner the correct way the rollers and grinding near enough match up. if you turn the inner round and fit it there is a distinctive difference in where the rollers run in the outer. hope this is of help to anyone who has dropped the inner out and doesn't know how it goes back. first pic correct , second pic where grinding and rollers don't match. can of worms now opened *whistle*

Offline Colsbeeza

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Drive side main bearing seal
« Reply #38 on: 04.11. 2020 08:17 »
Another Head Scratcher.! for which I would ask for some experienced opinion.
Assembling the Driveside Bearing Seal, I tapped it in, but it went way beyond the surface of the crankcase.
The sketch attached illustrates my issue.
The depth of housing in which the seal can be pushed is 7.57mm before it is hard against the bearing outer (in my case an NJ206)
The Seal thickness is 4.56mm, which means the seal outer edge can be placed about 3mm below the crankcase outer surface. This does seem odd.
Given that normal practice is to pein over 4 spots on the circumference of the crankcase, it would seem that I should just fit the seal flush with the crankcase, which means that the seal falls 3mm short of reaching the bearing.
As you can see, the bearing is fully home against the crankcase.
It suggests that the seal may cant over and not remain perpendicular to the crankshaft axis.
I don't seem to remember thinking that this was an issue in the past.
I propose to seal it in with Hylomar Gasket Sealer and mounted flush with the crankcase outer surface, and pein the 4 spots as normal. I had fitted the old seal, which was all neoprene as it had only a few miles on it, but removed it to study the issue.
The new seal is all metal cased, so should centre better.
Can I then assume that the seal will remain perpendicular (vertical) by means of the metal seal casing and the centering action of the distance piece which runs on the inner of the seal?
Is all this normal?
Col
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #39 on: 04.11. 2020 09:10 »
 Cols I can see the edge of the outer race just visible, so the crankcase appears as usual, just a plain hole. I'm currently sorting cases, and all are exactly the same. Seal housing depth is near as dammit to yours. Reckon the seal you have is just that bit too thin, so time to check with  another or make a  spacer  to pack it out and ensure to the lip is  positioned in the right place to seal against the rotating distance piece.  Anyone got a seal handy to measure?

 Swarfy.

Online JulianS

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #40 on: 04.11. 2020 09:23 »
Old Payen catalogue gives the seal as 55.65od x 43id x 4.7 thick

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #41 on: 04.11. 2020 09:39 »
Thanks Julian. Found a S/A case with a seal in place, and it lies 3mm below  the boss face. So there's  at least two in the world the same! But also another with the seal flush with the front face. Like Col I thought flush with the face would be the way as on Plunger cases. It's the raised boss to locate the primary case on S/A Models that alters the depth of location, so Cols bits look right to me. Depending on the thickness of the seal suppose it can end up recessed, or flush, or you take your choice. As long as the lips run in the right place, it will do the job.

 Swarfy.

Online berger

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #42 on: 04.11. 2020 11:09 »
the seal sits flush with the case and sits on the collar-- {distance piece} that buts up to the bearing with the inner chamfer to the bearing then  the sprocket sleeve goes on with any alignment shims , if its a swing arm model

Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #43 on: 05.11. 2020 11:52 »
Thanks Swarfy & Julian,
I did some measurements as follows:
Crankcase Seal housing depth - 7.57mm
Old Neoprene Seal Thickness 4.57mm
Collar / Spacer Thickness  - 9.87mm. OD 42.84mm
Collar Protrusion outside crankcase - 3.00mm average.
The new seal has a metal frame with dimensions - OD 55.7mm, ID 42.01mm (no collar inserted). Thickness 4.7mm.
Being metal, there was less "give" and it fitted tightly in the housing with a smear of Hylomar Blue.
Berger you were spot-on - The seal lies dead centre over collar as per image attached - (adjusted so that collar protrudes 3mm).
Thanks Col
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Australia

Online berger

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Re: Drive side main bearing
« Reply #44 on: 05.11. 2020 18:09 »
and as columbo would say " just one more thing", make sure the chain is in line with the clutch basket using shim-s between that collar and the sleeve that carries the sprocket --- if needed