Author Topic: Timing / HT Leads  (Read 765 times)

Offline jeffgleed

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Timing / HT Leads
« on: 15.10. 2021 12:37 »
Hi all, hope you are all well.

I am trying to fix a problem with sooting up of the plugs (both cylinders) on my 59 GF. I am going through it methodically and have started with the timing. The bike is fitted with a Thorspark electronic ignition unit so I am using a strobe. When I attach the strobe inductive pickup to the Left hand HT lead the light is pretty intermittant and difficult to use. Initially I thought it was a problem with the strobe but when I attach it to the R/H lead it gives a strong consistent light. Does this mean I may have a problem with an HT lead or is it just issues with Inductive pickups?

Also, bonus question: I setup the timing marks using the LH cylinder. Will these be appropriate for the R/H cylinder as well i.e. Do the cylinders work in unison and spark at the same time? or should I do the timing marks again?

Many thanks

Jeff
59 A10

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #1 on: 15.10. 2021 14:01 »
Thorspark  electronic I presume will be the same as other electronic ignitions in that it produces a spark for both cylinders at the same time and on every stroke (wasted spark).
I can't see how there could be any difference in the timing from one side to the other unless Thorspark uses the original magneto cam (some were made uneven) I don't know much about Thorspark as I use Pazon, it comes with it's own circuit board with two pickups on it spaced 180 degrees apart, I would think the difference in strobe light intensity must be down to the lead or it connection somewhere.
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All the best - Bill
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Online Greybeard

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #2 on: 15.10. 2021 14:18 »
... Best of lick with it...
Said in the voice of the policeman in Allo Allo. 😁
https://youtu.be/US3gf3pZQ-g
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Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #3 on: 15.10. 2021 17:55 »
Sooted plugs?

Are you working the choke the right way round?


Online bsa-bill

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #4 on: 15.10. 2021 21:06 »
Quote
Said in the voice of the policeman in Allo Allo.

you got me ;) - spillchucker failed
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Ewen

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #5 on: 15.10. 2021 22:10 »
If the spark is intermittent on one side but strong on the other the fault must lie with the HT lead or coil. You could try a new plug. The pistons are in the same position on both sides so the spark occurs at the same time for both.

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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #6 on: 16.10. 2021 08:34 »
 Thorspark uses a single trigger and a coil with with two output plug leads, a so called "double ended coil"  This fires both cylinders at the same time, as outlined by Bill and Ewen. The fact that one side fires consistently indicates the trigger is working fine, the fault must lie in the coil itself, the lead or the plug.
 
 Swapping the leads over....fault moves to the other cylinder, suspect the coil/lead. Fault remains, it's the plug. Time it up on on either cylinder, right hand one side is usually used as this is the side most convenient when setting and checking with the normal magneto.

 HT voltages produce strange tricks and without professional test equipment a coil fault will be hard to pinpoint. A word with the makers is worth a call. In the old days it was "test by substitution". This would be expensive.  They may offer a test facility if this proves necessary.

  Sooty plugs. Suspect choke operation and mixture strength. Bore or inlet guide problems will give oily plugs rather than sooty, together with blue smoke. Rich mixtures give black smoke, poor lumpy running and the smell of fuel in the exhaust.

 Swarfy.

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #7 on: 16.10. 2021 09:23 »
If the spark is intermittent on one side but strong on the other the fault must lie with the HT lead or coil. You could try a new plug. The pistons are in the same position on both sides so the spark occurs at the same time for both.

Jeff doesn’t say the spark is intermittent.  He says the strobe is intermittent.

I say it doesn’t matter, in that timing  one plug is timing both in a wasted spark system.

If Jeff has two coils in series, the misbehaving strobe could be a sign of a coil issue or (more likely) a fouled plug.

If Jeff has a dual output coil, the strobe symptoms are probably just a sign of the erratic nature of inductive pickups.

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #8 on: 16.10. 2021 09:28 »
With a dual coil, both HT leads are in the same circuit.

Jeff hasn’t said if there’s a spark at both plugs, but if one plug is not firing with a dual coil, then the HT current is finding another path instead of across the plug gap. It can be plug fouling or a flaw or moisture in the plug cap or lead.

Offline Jules

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #9 on: 17.10. 2021 01:06 »
I wonder if the focus is wrong here, if both plugs are sooty and there's no misfiring when riding etc, then I would be looking at carburation first not sparks. Sooty plugs maybe an issue if you have been riding hard, but if just cruising around at low speeds/idling/etc, then maybe its normal?? also if this is your normal riding style then maybe a hotter plug might be a better and simpler solution if everything else is working fine, or even maybe just a clogged air filter??

Offline rayjay

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Re: Timing / HT Leads
« Reply #10 on: 17.10. 2021 21:40 »
I have a thorspark system on my GF and had the same problem when using a strobe, the left  lead did not trigger a consistent spark. Fitted a new lead and fault was still there. I contacted Sussex motorcycles ( they give a 5 year warranty) and to give them fair dues they supplied a new  coil and leads immediately. Once fitted, the uneven idle disappeared and bike runs much smoother
A10 Tiger sport DR400  XT225                                                                       T