Author Topic: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine  (Read 1626 times)

Offline terryg

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #15 on: 29.08. 2022 13:21 »
GB - L H Sparey is your trusted friend and guide for thread cutting on the lathe. I believe you have a copy of ‘The Amateur’s Lathe’.  Oh, and perhaps a thread dial indicator if you’re going to be disengaging the lead screw on the return.
As it’s only a short length of thread I’d be tempted, also as a beginner in these things, to manually return the cross slide without disengaging the lead screw.  Sounds laborious but foolproof.
Happy turning!
Terry
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Offline terryg

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #16 on: 29.08. 2022 13:23 »
PS - one day I’ll rig up the reversing switch that I need.
Terry
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Offline Greybeard

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #17 on: 29.08. 2022 13:39 »
I believe you have a copy of ‘The Amateur’s Lathe’.  Oh, and perhaps a thread dial indicator if you’re going to be disengaging the lead screw on the return.

Yes to both. I've worked out how to set the change gears to get a 20 tpi feed.
Quote

As it’s only a short length of thread I’d be tempted, also as a beginner in these things, to manually return the cross slide without disengaging the lead screw.  Sounds laborious but foolproof.
Happy turning!
Do you mean, pull the tool out using the cross slide, reverse the lathe, move the tool back in for the next cut?
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Offline terryg

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #18 on: 29.08. 2022 13:50 »
Basically ‘yes’, to ensure the registry of the tool with the thread is maintained.
When you read LHS you might find it’s actually the top slide you’re using to advance the tool. Setting the top slide at an angle results in this.  There may be no need to retract for the return.

I’ve used the method, a while ago, and found it quite clever as well as effective.
Terry
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Offline Greybeard

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #19 on: 29.08. 2022 18:28 »
Can you have a look in your data and let me have the spec for this thread please, or show me a link. I've only found charts online that go up to 1" so far. I believe it's 1.5" I believe it's BSC. Should it have 26tpi?
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Online Rex

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #20 on: 29.08. 2022 19:16 »
if it's 26TPI it'll be as near as wossname a 1mm pitch, if that's easier to measure.
20TPI would be noticeably fewer.

Offline RDfella

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #21 on: 29.08. 2022 19:55 »
My this is getting complicated.
The thread required is 20tpi, so set your lathe to cut 20tpi. If the thread is Whiworth, your cutting tool needs to be 55*. If it's Cycle, 60* (same as UNF / UNC). For an item like this it hardly matters, as the thread (by virtue of the tpi) is relatively shallow.
Remember each cut you make to advance the tool on the compound a thou or two so the tool is only cutting on one side. And lubricate - I find WD40 is handy for aluminium, though paraffin is the usual fluid. 
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Offline morris

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #22 on: 29.08. 2022 22:25 »
Should get yourself something like this GB ;
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thread-gauges/6830743
Really helpful to determine thread pitches and angles
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Offline Greybeard

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #23 on: 29.08. 2022 22:41 »
Should get yourself something like this GB ;
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thread-gauges/6830743
Really helpful to determine thread pitches and angles
👍
Yes Morris, I have a simple set that came in my cheap tap/die set. I'll get a more extensive set.

The thread on the plug seems to be 20tpi but I have the impression that BSC is 26tpi.
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Offline trevinoz

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #24 on: 29.08. 2022 23:06 »
BSC is 26 tpi from 1/4" up to at least 1". Below 1/4" it is finer. BSA used 20 tpi from 7/16" up. There are exceptions, the steering yoke comes to mind.

Online RichardL

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #25 on: 29.08. 2022 23:26 »
GB,

The first (and, so far, only) experimental thread I made was in a pipe fitting that I turned to thread in where the bearing retainer goes in a crinkle hub. It worked decent. I'm no expert, so I'm only going to spout-on about how I did it if your own reading or YouTube search doesn't find the useful info. One thing worth noting, given that you have a thread dial, you should not have to work your way backwards by reversing the lead screw.

Richard L.



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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #26 on: 29.08. 2022 23:46 »
The spare plugs I have for a s/a A10 measure a bit less than 1 1/2” OD and are 20tpi. They are a pretty loose fit in the chaincase stuck up in the shed wall for decoration.

The larger diameter plug I made out of a sandwich of 2 pieces if 6mm sheet for a rogue (m20?) case on my b31 is 18tpi
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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #27 on: 30.08. 2022 07:08 »
For a good chart on tpi in BSC (and anything else), see the attached pdf.
I've posted it before, having salvaged it from a now-defunct web site - and find it the most comprehensive one this side of the Zeus booklets.
Click on the BSC heading to save scrolling, it should take you straight to the relevant page.
Bill

Offline RDfella

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #28 on: 30.08. 2022 10:14 »
With the sort of lathes members seem to be talking about here (Myford etc) I'd not recommend trying to make an oil cap unless 1) your lathe has a thread dial, 2) you've experience of thread cutting. The reason for the foregoing is that you need to thread up to a shoulder and that's not so easy. I have a Holbrook B18 (reckoned to be the best screw-cutting lathe made). That has low speed (10rpm), a comprehensive gear box and a device for rapid retract of the cross-slide without affecting the settings. With taper turning it'll even turn a taper thread (even with all that, threading to a shoulder requires thought). My other lathes (Boxford etc) have none of those features. Indeed, generally speaking, small lathes run too fast for screw-cutting, even in back gear.
For those not familiar with thread turning, the way I'd cut this thread:

Chuck suitable alloy and turn OD for flange.
Turn portion to be threaded to 1 1/2" dia.
With narrow parting tool, make an undercut next to shoulder to depth of thread (around .032")
Mount an internal threading tool (they're narrow enough to enter the undercut) to toolpost so it's behind the job.
Select reverse (head and feed), start lathe and get tool to just touch area to be threaded. Zero cross-slide dial. Stop lathe.
Select 20tpi on gearbox or via gear selection.
Select lathe speed to around 60rpm.
Bring tool to undercut and set cross-slide for a cut of around .015".
Start lathe and engage feed at a suitable point on the dial.
When past the end of the job, disengage feed, move tool away from job and return to undercut.
Apply an extra .015" (or thereabouts - just happens to be my usual cut when threading) and repeat above until thread depth is achieved.
Remember to advance the tool a thou or two on the compound for each cut.
Now re-set lathe to usual rotation and use parting tool to create correct width of cap flange. Remember it's domed, so using the compound instead of the cross-slide may help. Can do it with the latter, but requires experience.
Before going too far parting off, knurl the now exposed outer edge of the flange.

The above may seem complicated - it's not really, but it's necessary in order to cut a thread close to a shoulder. Cutting up to it is possible but risky, even with the fast-retract facility of a Holbrook. Which is why I laid out how to cut away from a shoulder. Trying to do it without a thread dial and having to leave the feed engaged the whole time would be near impossible.

 PS. If your lathe is metric, you'll probably get away with threading at 1.25mm instead of 20tpi. (when a thread is short, it's possible to cheat a little sometimes).
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Offline Greybeard

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Re: Loose primary case filler plug on semi-unit engine
« Reply #29 on: 30.08. 2022 11:11 »
BSC is 26 tpi from 1/4" up to at least 1". Below 1/4" it is finer. BSA used 20 tpi from 7/16" up. There are exceptions, the steering yoke comes to mind.
Many thanks. That needed clarifying 👍
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