Author Topic: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???  (Read 499 times)

Offline Hughsie

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 0
  • BSA A7 500cc Alloy head, 55 engine 57 frame.
BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« on: 05.09. 2022 15:30 »
Hi
I appreciate there is work that can be done to improve my ariel front brake, but.....
Is there actually a fairly easy or direct swap for this front wheel that will give me a more useful brake?
I dont mind if it's changes the look, it's not that much of an original bike anyway.
Thanks in advance
Facebook: Scottish Cafe Racers
Instagram: Scottish Cafe Racer
BSA A7 500cc Alloy head, 55 engine 57 frame.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 8720
  • Karma: 46
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #1 on: 05.09. 2022 15:54 »
I have to tell you that the early half sided brake is great when set up properly.  A BSOAC friend had a ride on my bike. He has the full width brakes. He was surprised at how much better the anchors on my bike were than his own
Greybeard (Neil)
1955 Golden Flash, sprung frame
Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Online RDfella

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 1933
  • Karma: 14
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #2 on: 05.09. 2022 16:35 »
Agree with Neil - the 8" single-sided is by far the best but, as SHM says, it won't fit your sliders. There is a twin leading backplate (Triumph I believe) that drops in and improves matters. What I did.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline bikerbob

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 674
  • Karma: 8
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #3 on: 05.09. 2022 17:39 »
Your main problem with going to a half width hub is the spindle size on the Ariel hubs is 1" dia so the fork bottoms have a 1" dia to accomoate that spindle, so some how you will either have to alter the half width hub or change the bottom of the forks to suit the half width hub. Also the mud guard brackets are different. So while I am not saying it can't be done it will entail quite a bit of work, maybe try and improve your existing brake first. My A7 has the Ariel hubs and I find the brakes OK obviously not upto modern standards but alright, just ride the bike accordingly.
56 A7 s/a
63 A65

Online Rex

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 1208
  • Karma: 4
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #4 on: 05.09. 2022 18:22 »
I'd love that brake too, but then my '51 A7 came with the pressed tin 7" brake plate as fitted to the C range bikes.
To be fair, a skimmed drum (it was oval) and new linings have helped a lot, though stoppies aren't on the cards anytime soon.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 9786
  • Karma: 122
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #5 on: 05.09. 2022 20:38 »
G'day Hughsie.
I raced my 1957 A7SS with those brakes for 9 years. Get the shoes re-lined with the softest material available.
When I put her on the road as the A10 Cafe I extended the lever by an inch.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 9786
  • Karma: 122
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #6 on: 05.09. 2022 22:33 »
G'day Fellas.
When I was preping the A7SS for racing I took the shoes to a brake shop. I told the young fella what I wanted. Then an old fella came out and asked what for. I told him and he disappeared out back. I heard him rummaging, then he came out with a roll and said "this is what you want sonny".
A very coarse woven material with what looked like copper wire in the weave. Sort of like the pic but with the copper. One hour later the job was done. 
It works very well but on a tight track they begin to fade after 8 to 10 laps *eek*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3814
  • Karma: 52
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #7 on: 06.09. 2022 00:20 »
Hi All,
I have seen twin leading shoe brake plates for the Ariel type hubs, I seem to remember they made by the Ariel o/c ?
I have also seen the Ariel brake plates breaking as opposed to braking *eek*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline Peter in Aus

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 424
  • Karma: 2
  • South West, West Australia
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #8 on: 06.09. 2022 02:11 »
I took my A7 full with hub front brake to Matfleet Maddington WA. (recommended by Richard Orabanda) They want the whole wheel complete with the Tyre still on, they skim the drum and fit a lining (glued and riveted both ends) similar to what Muskrat said, (at a very reasonable cost) a vast improvement, you acutely slow down now when applying the brake instead of going faster *eek*
Not much good to members except for members in  West Australia but might be able to find someone near you that dose something similar.
Peter

Busselton West Australia
49 A7 longstroke
58 A10  SA

Online orabanda

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 1135
  • Karma: 24
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #9 on: 06.09. 2022 03:40 »
Marfleet have recently done same with Ariel hubs for my '56 Road Rocket.
Front brake remains a token gesture only; a hub for the spokes to fasten to.
The Ariel FWH  are the only brake I haven't been able to improve to a satisfactory standard. Have tried three different modern linings, including the copper impregnated woven material Peter has had success with, and had them all arced to suit re-machined drums.

Maybe part of the issue is the materiel used for the brake surface (low co-efficient of friction)?

As Chaterlea (John) mentioned, it is well documented that there are weaknesses in the backing plate and they can crack and / or the stud securing the torque arm can break away; excitement plus!!

The single sided 8" A10 brake is a good brake; the 1968 A65 version is much better - I have fitted these to several A10's.

My next step is (will be) to have the brake backing plate recast (stronger), and convert to 2LS on the front, and retrofit the recast backing plate to the rear..
Richard

Offline Hughsie

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 0
  • BSA A7 500cc Alloy head, 55 engine 57 frame.
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #10 on: 07.09. 2022 00:15 »
Wow, lots of fantastic info to read through here everyone, I really appreciate the comments.
I think my first port of call should be a re line anyway and take it from there. I have been consciously riding more appropriately to the bike, giving much more braking distance and using both front and back brakes together. But the shoes are deffo old, so a softer re line should be a quick improvement,  I will report back on any improvement.    Extending the pivot arm sounds very interesting also, I'm sure that something I remember from school about Newton and leverage, so that makes sense and sounds interesting.
I actually love the look of these wheels so would like to keep them ideally.  I will read each post again to ensure I've not missed anything, but as agreed I'd prefer not to go down the route of changing forks etc right now, it's already been a costly project and I need to keep the budget in mind.
Thanks again
Facebook: Scottish Cafe Racers
Instagram: Scottish Cafe Racer
BSA A7 500cc Alloy head, 55 engine 57 frame.

Online orabanda

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 1135
  • Karma: 24
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #11 on: 07.09. 2022 03:54 »
It helps to have a (handle bar) brake lever with 7/8" between the  bolt pivot centre - cable lug centre; this will generate the most force at the lever.
Richard

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1608
  • Karma: 24
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #12 on: 07.09. 2022 07:55 »
A big +1 for that.
And for clutches. Makes them a lot lighter - transformative in many cases, and a MUST on some machines. But robust quality is also a bit critical, some of the stuff out there is so flimsy that you can watch things bend when you apply even modest force.
Bill

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 8720
  • Karma: 46
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #13 on: 07.09. 2022 09:15 »
... using both front and back brakes together....
👍

I often find myself putting my left foot down and using only the front brake when coming to a stop. I wonder if that's a muscle memory from riding Japanese bikes long ago.
Greybeard (Neil)
1955 Golden Flash, sprung frame
Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Online rocker21

  • A's Good Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 164
  • Karma: 2
Re: BSA / Ariel Hub Front brake conversion???
« Reply #14 on: 07.09. 2022 11:59 »
there was many years ago a hydraulic conversion using mini bits, there are some pics on the Ariel  club website, also there was a TLS conversion made back in the day .
1960 A7SS, 1954 Ariel fieldmaster 500 twin, motoguzzi Monza 500, motoguzzi V7III special, Yamaha sr400 (2014)